| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:29 |
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| 04:17 |
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Calinou joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:48 |
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| 07:17 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: any chance of you extending nodeboxes so that we could supply roll/pitch/yaw vectors per box as well? e.g. up to 9 fields instead of 6 |
| 07:18 |
celeron55 |
no? that sounds like somebody needs to implement 3d models for nodes |
| 07:19 |
VanessaE |
eh, I wasn't thinking to that extent |
| 07:19 |
celeron55 |
the answer is no. |
| 07:20 |
VanessaE |
ok. I was thinking more like if a mod author just wanted to angle a box for something like a wall lever handle, torch, etc. |
| 07:20 |
VanessaE |
but ok. |
| 07:20 |
Calinou |
external 3d models has a downside; it's MUCH more complex and you need to do all the UV mapping stuff yourself |
| 07:20 |
Calinou |
most modders will just ignore 3D models for nodes in this case |
| 07:23 |
celeron55 |
if somebody implements the suggested fields, i can take a look at it and consider using it if it's good, but i am not going to do anything like that |
| 07:23 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: what about per-nodebox textures? I don't remember your answer to that one (if any). |
| 07:23 |
celeron55 |
yeah and then nodecircles? |
| 07:24 |
VanessaE |
um, no |
| 07:24 |
celeron55 |
i don't feel like implementing a 3d modeller in minetest |
| 07:24 |
celeron55 |
there are already good ones |
| 07:24 |
VanessaE |
um |
| 07:24 |
celeron55 |
i need to draw a line somewhere |
| 07:24 |
VanessaE |
you're missing the point |
| 07:24 |
celeron55 |
explain the point in four words |
| 07:25 |
VanessaE |
4 words? heh |
| 07:25 |
VanessaE |
stacked nodebox texture glitches |
| 07:26 |
celeron55 |
now i guess you need a screenshot too |
| 07:26 |
|
EdB joined #minetest-dev |
| 07:26 |
VanessaE |
in other words if you build some simple implement, say a cube with a smaller cube floating above, the lower cube's upper face, for example, gets the same texture as the upper face of the upper cube, even if the "right" design would have the two looking entirely different. |
| 07:26 |
VanessaE |
ok, a screenshot. |
| 07:26 |
VanessaE |
one sec, I have the perfect thing. |
| 07:27 |
celeron55 |
i know that |
| 07:28 |
celeron55 |
well, again, if somebody does it (i wonder if there already IS an implementation somewhere?), i can consider |
| 07:28 |
celeron55 |
i am not interested once again |
| 07:28 |
VanessaE |
there's a problem with that plan. |
| 07:29 |
VanessaE |
if you'll excuse me being blunt here: if someone does it, you're likely to reject it anyway because it either isn't flexible enough or the code sucks or something else (all valid concerns). |
| 07:29 |
VanessaE |
there: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/screenshot_1209353173.png |
| 07:30 |
celeron55 |
"likely to reject it" <- i am likely to reject it if it is badly made |
| 07:30 |
VanessaE |
see how the dark handle casts a shadow over the pipe on the left? I get only three options here: make the handle shorter, make the handle have a light grey bit on the end, or have that shadow |
| 07:30 |
celeron55 |
and i see nothing wrong in that |
| 07:31 |
VanessaE |
ideally, the pipe should still be light grey and the handle should have it's own set of textures so that the compromise isn't necessary |
| 07:31 |
celeron55 |
or, well, it has it's wrong side, but i cannot do anything to it; it is inherent to the way of doing things |
| 07:31 |
VanessaE |
anyway, "I am not interested". Fine then. |
| 07:32 |
VanessaE |
oh also: as you can see, nodeboxes can look quite round if you're careful with your design ;-) |
| 07:32 |
celeron55 |
if you haven't noticed, i am rarely interested in doing things these days; the options pretty much are 1) DIY, 2) live without the thing |
| 07:32 |
VanessaE |
yes I've noticed, and this is bad for the project to be perfectly honest. |
| 07:33 |
celeron55 |
yes, so? |
| 07:33 |
VanessaE |
er |
| 07:33 |
celeron55 |
i fully acknowledge it is bad for the project |
| 07:34 |
VanessaE |
I can understand if you don't feel like coding. |
| 07:34 |
celeron55 |
still i won't go and do stuff that i just hate doing and will get nothing out of |
| 07:34 |
VanessaE |
that's not the issue. |
| 07:35 |
celeron55 |
so what is the correctable issue? |
| 07:35 |
VanessaE |
the issue is when someone *else* does something useful to others (whether useful to you in particular or not) only for their code contributions to sit untouched for weeks at a time. |
| 07:36 |
celeron55 |
i do take in contributions, but i don't want to cram them in at random times but at times when it best suits the release cycle and other stuff at works |
| 07:36 |
VanessaE |
it would be fine if the code turns out to be crap, then of course it should be rejected, but otherwise why does anyone want to contribute if you don't feel like doing anything with the code? |
| 07:37 |
celeron55 |
if people care about whether their code goes in in 1 hour vs. in 6 months, then the only option really is to not contribute |
| 07:38 |
VanessaE |
eh |
| 07:38 |
VanessaE |
people care if it takes 6 months if their code ends up becoming unusable because it sat for so long. |
| 07:38 |
celeron55 |
also, people are free to start maintaining their own community contributed branch, and if it's good and i feel lazy, chances are i will just take it in |
| 07:38 |
celeron55 |
people haven't done that really at all |
| 07:39 |
VanessaE |
oh they have. |
| 07:39 |
VanessaE |
I've been watching a little here and there. |
| 07:39 |
celeron55 |
i have seen only darkrose's one that i suggested to be started |
| 07:39 |
Calinou |
VanessaE, haven't seen many patches around... c55 can't add invisible patches |
| 07:40 |
VanessaE |
there are 118 forks of minetest. How manyare still active? I dunno |
| 07:40 |
Calinou |
last "worthwhile" one I seen was the weather patch |
| 07:40 |
celeron55 |
if you hide the work somewhere i can't see, how do you expect me to do anything with it? |
| 07:40 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: there are 11 pull requests against minetest and another one or two against _game |
| 07:40 |
Calinou |
"small things" tend to get added much easier too; remember my very small code change that prevent people from using /me when they're muted? |
| 07:40 |
Calinou |
if you're making a core change of course a merge is unlikely.. |
| 07:44 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: the bottom line is this: people like the game. modders like Calinou and I love to write little (or big) mods to extend some function, but if you don't want to be there so that we can help you to make the game better in some way, how should we respond? |
| 07:45 |
Calinou |
the answer is the community; see the 3D player patch; back when it worked a good amount of people used it, and even made new skins for it |
| 07:45 |
celeron55 |
maybe we should just dump the whole thing and start doing something else |
| 07:46 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: no, that's an awful drastic thing to do. |
| 07:47 |
VanessaE |
pass the torch to someone else - give some trusted individual access to update git master directly (maybe darkrose, maybe others, I don't know) |
| 07:47 |
VanessaE |
if you do anything at all as drastic, do that. |
| 07:47 |
celeron55 |
also, as there is no voting system of any kind in place, people *have* to repeatedly notify me of patches they would like to have included |
| 07:47 |
celeron55 |
otherwise i have no way of prioritizing anything, because i usually don't play the game |
| 07:47 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: fine, but when we do that you either ignore us or get pissed off briefly. |
| 07:48 |
Calinou |
idea: start a fork of MT where several community people can commit |
| 07:48 |
Calinou |
then tell people about it to contribute, then we can add their patches if they are good |
| 07:48 |
celeron55 |
i try not to, but it's hard to tell when people want to argue about stuff or just vote for something already done |
| 07:48 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: I'll give you a perfect example, and I only mention this because it is easy for me to remember: |
| 07:49 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: when we did the dyes thing, you said you didn't want to rely on an outside mod for glass vessels. I responded by writing an appropriate mod, tuning it, and submitting a request. Three times until now I have asked you your opinion on it. You ignored me all three times - in an otherwise idle channel. |
| 07:50 |
VanessaE |
That pull request now also contains animated torches, another query you did not respond to. |
| 07:50 |
Calinou |
[very unrelated] how about adding this? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/issues/219 |
| 07:50 |
Calinou |
you can't bind "use" and "sneak" to the same key AFAIK, so it's useful |
| 07:51 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: the rest of the time, honestly, I think people are afraid to ask you about these sorts of things. |
| 07:51 |
celeron55 |
i have not ignored it; i am just putting it aside until i have time to check it to the extent i want to check things i put upstream; just like #219 |
| 07:52 |
celeron55 |
merging stuff is not like just pressing a button and then not caring about it before or after |
| 07:52 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: no no, I don't mean ignoring the patch - I mean ignoring my "request for comment" if you'll excuse the expression. |
| 07:52 |
celeron55 |
i test everything and make sure all works as intended and there are no unintended things and stuff like that |
| 07:52 |
celeron55 |
and i can't do it except at times when i am genuinely interested in working on minetest |
| 07:53 |
VanessaE |
of course. |
| 07:53 |
VanessaE |
and that's completely understandable |
| 07:53 |
VanessaE |
but if you're in here talking, and have gone silent for a bit, and someone asks you a question, but you ignore them and then go on to talk about something else an hour later... surely you can see the issue there |
| 07:54 |
VanessaE |
(where "talking" and "something else" usually both are minetest related, if separated by some hours) |
| 07:55 |
celeron55 |
eh |
| 07:56 |
VanessaE |
and after all the work Jeija and I did together on Mesecons lately, and RealBadAngel working with me on pipeworks (the screeshot I showed you), believe me I am more than a little bit familiar with the proper review-merge-retest process. |
| 07:56 |
celeron55 |
how many examples of such you can point at? |
| 07:56 |
VanessaE |
of unanswered comments? Nothing more without an exhaustive search of my logs. |
| 07:57 |
VanessaE |
(or the online copies anyway) |
| 07:57 |
celeron55 |
*i read everything on this channel* |
| 07:57 |
VanessaE |
so you've said, and I don't doubt that. |
| 07:58 |
celeron55 |
ask something you've seen here that you think i haven't seen and i'll tell if i've seen it |
| 07:59 |
celeron55 |
that is like the only thing i always do, and that is exactly why i don't want random chit-chat in here, in order to be able to do it |
| 07:59 |
VanessaE |
[08-20 07:41] <saschaheylik> celeron55: is there only one sea level throughout the game? |
| 07:59 |
celeron55 |
i saw that, and was about to answer at the beginning of this discussion, but saschaheylik isn't here ATM |
| 07:59 |
VanessaE |
(I believe the answer is 'yes' but I didn't code the map generator so I couldn't answer definitvely) |
| 08:00 |
VanessaE |
[08-19 17:35] <thexyz> celeron55: is that solution for custom crafting grids sane enough? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/220 |
| 08:01 |
VanessaE |
(and his account IS here, so he would likely see a notification - not that I actually care for the idea of a smaller crafting grid :-) ) |
| 08:02 |
VanessaE |
vicscandl thanked you twice in last two days or so for your work on the game. |
| 08:02 |
VanessaE |
(not sure if it's customary for Finns to say phrases such as "you're welcome" or so) |
| 08:03 |
celeron55 |
apparently that particular thexyz's line is the only one i haven't noticed in the past days; i did read everything after and everything before it (probably because i thought i had read everything thexyz said already); anyway, it's on github so i have to look into it anyway at some point |
| 08:05 |
celeron55 |
ehm... i did wonder why he said it twice; i consider replying anything to that as being chit-chat not belonging to here |
| 08:06 |
VanessaE |
the other day when you mentioned wanting to get 0.4.2-release out to the world, I said 'no' and pointed out why I thought that was a bad idea. instead of responding to my comment, you went onto to gripe calinou out about a patch he submitted. |
| 08:06 |
celeron55 |
(if i was looking at this channel the exact time he was saying it i might have replied though, but after many hours, not) |
| 08:08 |
VanessaE |
Anyway I think the point is made now. |
| 08:09 |
celeron55 |
after you said that, i went to browse through the github issue list to see how many of issues there are |
| 08:09 |
celeron55 |
and actually merged one of them |
| 08:09 |
VanessaE |
quite some number of them aren't there? :-) |
| 08:09 |
celeron55 |
but then i had to do other things |
| 08:09 |
celeron55 |
actually not merged but fixed... well anyway |
| 08:10 |
VanessaE |
right. |
| 08:11 |
celeron55 |
who is chris dorman / ubuntunerd69 and how this guy relates to stuff that has happened on the forum? |
| 08:11 |
VanessaE |
maybe some of this is culture clash. Where I come from, it's customary to say something like "ok, give me some time to X" for whatever thing X that has to be done to continue a given conversation. |
| 08:12 |
celeron55 |
is that the one posting the hacked client? |
| 08:12 |
VanessaE |
he's a griefer is about all I know |
| 08:12 |
celeron55 |
ok |
| 08:12 |
VanessaE |
however, |
| 08:12 |
VanessaE |
one sec |
| 08:12 |
celeron55 |
i received a whinemail (now an official term) from him |
| 08:12 |
VanessaE |
*racks brain* |
| 08:12 |
VanessaE |
HAHA! |
| 08:12 |
VanessaE |
ok it's the same guy then |
| 08:12 |
VanessaE |
lemme get the log |
| 08:13 |
VanessaE |
(I closed his thread, cal banned him) |
| 08:13 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.com/7bQZC0Ve |
| 08:13 |
VanessaE |
his whine session to me in /msg |
| 08:14 |
VanessaE |
he goes by another name on some servers, rather well-known name in fact, but I can't recall what it was now |
| 08:15 |
VanessaE |
hrm, that doesn't seem right. Someone equating him with madchicken13 |
| 08:16 |
celeron55 |
i don't think banning is really reasonable unless he has done not good stuff on the forums before |
| 08:16 |
VanessaE |
I didn't think so either but *shrug* I don't know what to do in this sort of case |
| 08:16 |
VanessaE |
oh also, keegan requested that I close his server thread until his ban expires, but someone undisclosed kept re-opening it. |
| 08:17 |
celeron55 |
somebody should note him that it does help expose the not-so-good anticheat features, but needing to improve them is always directly away from actually improving the game in ways that any valid user cares about |
| 08:17 |
VanessaE |
haha, forgot to answer the capthca on my log paste. you can read it now :D |
| 08:18 |
celeron55 |
i could read it already |
| 08:18 |
VanessaE |
oh ok |
| 08:18 |
VanessaE |
interesting that pastebin published it before I answered the captcha. I'll have to send them a bug report. |
| 08:18 |
celeron55 |
anyway, calinou should reconsider the ban; if calinou does know of previous abuse, then it's acceptable, otherwise not so |
| 08:19 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: the captcha is for viewing the paste |
| 08:19 |
celeron55 |
not for pasting |
| 08:19 |
VanessaE |
oooohhhhh |
| 08:19 |
VanessaE |
I'll raise the point with him when he's on next. |
| 08:23 |
VanessaE |
hm. this is already fixed now isn't it? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/issues/144 |
| 08:24 |
celeron55 |
most likely not |
| 08:24 |
celeron55 |
your interpretation of the problem is just wrog |
| 08:24 |
celeron55 |
wrong* |
| 08:24 |
VanessaE |
yeah I figured that now :-) |
| 08:25 |
celeron55 |
(no idea what the bug is though, i have never seen that) |
| 08:26 |
VanessaE |
my only guess is it's related to the zip/unzip bug you and darkrose fixed. |
| 08:26 |
celeron55 |
ah |
| 08:26 |
VanessaE |
I haven't seen that error since that commit |
| 08:26 |
celeron55 |
that is actually the most probable cause, which'd mean it is fixed |
| 08:27 |
VanessaE |
the 1400 mentioned must just be an incredible coincidence :-) |
| 08:27 |
celeron55 |
well 1400 is just a random number if computers are concerned |
| 08:27 |
VanessaE |
right, that's what had be so confused. |
| 08:34 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: #135, there's a mod for that now. |
| 08:35 |
VanessaE |
http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2704 |
| 08:37 |
celeron55 |
i should probably focus my effort on some kind of community portals for development |
| 08:38 |
VanessaE |
#207, jin_xi found a workaround for that, but I don't know the details. |
| 08:38 |
VanessaE |
http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2367 |
| 08:39 |
VanessaE |
yeah, that probably would be a good idea, but how will you (or whoever) manage the incoming code? you're already pretty heavily loaded from what it looks like to me. |
| 08:39 |
thexyz |
really? workaround? |
| 08:39 |
VanessaE |
thexyz: aye. he said he told you about it I thought? |
| 08:39 |
thexyz |
right |
| 08:39 |
VanessaE |
jin_xi uses a similar method as you for combining those textures into entity sprites. |
| 08:40 |
thexyz |
he said he did some random things and then it worked |
| 08:40 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 08:40 |
thexyz |
afaik |
| 08:40 |
VanessaE |
I never said his workaround wasn't also a dirty hack ;-) but not having looked at it, I can't comment on it beyond just saying it exists. |
| 08:41 |
celeron55 |
somebody try adding "baseimg->fill(video::SColor(0,0,0,0));" after line tile.cpp:1347 |
| 08:41 |
celeron55 |
uh no |
| 08:41 |
celeron55 |
oh, yes actually |
| 08:42 |
VanessaE |
trying.. |
| 08:44 |
celeron55 |
"but how will you (or whoever) manage the incoming code?" <- voting 8) then i can blame the users themselves! |
| 08:44 |
VanessaE |
oh hell, that was the wrong version of minetest to try |
| 08:44 |
* VanessaE |
tries again against current gity |
| 08:44 |
VanessaE |
-y |
| 08:46 |
VanessaE |
um |
| 08:46 |
VanessaE |
current git already has that line in it? |
| 08:47 |
VanessaE |
no that can't be right |
| 08:47 |
VanessaE |
wrong file again |
| 08:48 |
celeron55 |
http://paste.dy.fi/dAK |
| 08:48 |
thexyz |
works fine for me |
| 08:48 |
VanessaE |
right. I just need to edit the right damn git pull and pay closer attention :-) |
| 08:49 |
thexyz |
yes, no more glitches |
| 08:50 |
thexyz |
btw, celeron55, where is inventorylist's size property saved? |
| 08:50 |
celeron55 |
also there is some other things to add to it; namely creating baseimg only if it doesn't already exist and using blit_with_alpha instead of copyToWithAlpha |
| 08:51 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: saved? |
| 08:53 |
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| 08:53 |
celeron55 |
like... not depending on what you mean with saving, it is saved where the list is saved, where else could it be? |
| 08:53 |
thexyz |
umm.. i mean, whether it's stored in database/etc, and if yes, which part of code manages saving/loading |
| 08:54 |
VanessaE |
looks good here, no more glitches on the signs either. |
| 08:54 |
celeron55 |
InventoryList::serialize() and Inventory::serialize() |
| 08:54 |
celeron55 |
and deSerialize |
| 08:55 |
celeron55 |
inventories are saved as line-oriented text |
| 08:55 |
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| 08:56 |
celeron55 |
for the players, they are in the player files, for other things, in some obscure construction in the database |
| 08:56 |
celeron55 |
hint: mapformat.txt |
| 08:56 |
celeron55 |
8) |
| 08:57 |
celeron55 |
one thing to do would be to rework the map format to not contain as much legacy crap as currently (but not changing things for the sake of changing things) |
| 08:58 |
jin_xi |
a propos tile.cpp: still leaking textures (all stages of drawing a painting for example) |
| 09:03 |
jin_xi |
here is a thread about it with link to patch: http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=932 |
| 09:04 |
thexyz |
btw, celeron55, anything about my pull request? you still haven't said is inventorylist width property sane enough |
| 09:06 |
celeron55 |
i am actually at work and should do something completely different but umm... |
| 09:08 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: i have intentionally tried to keep out from having any geometry stored in inventory lists (thus the name too) |
| 09:08 |
celeron55 |
so that they can be shown in various geometries as needed |
| 09:08 |
celeron55 |
that quite breaks the thought |
| 09:10 |
thexyz |
but that one should be used only in cases when something really needs to know inventorylists's "dimensions" |
| 09:10 |
thexyz |
like crafting grid |
| 09:11 |
thexyz |
that's not mandatory property |
| 09:11 |
celeron55 |
people are likely to set the width and then go confused because it didn't change it anywhere |
| 09:11 |
celeron55 |
8) |
| 09:13 |
celeron55 |
if it was called "craft width", it'd probably get the point through |
| 09:14 |
thexyz |
but it could be used not only for crafting grid |
| 09:14 |
celeron55 |
also it'd be possible to have the system require that crafting grids are always NxN, so it could just calculate it from the overall size |
| 09:15 |
celeron55 |
which... would probably work very well as for now |
| 09:15 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: any examples? |
| 09:16 |
thexyz |
examples of what? |
| 09:16 |
celeron55 |
of for what it could be used |
| 09:16 |
celeron55 |
viewing them is always defined at an another level |
| 09:17 |
thexyz |
something like "nuclear reactor" in minecraft's industrialcraft mod |
| 09:17 |
thexyz |
where position matters |
| 09:19 |
celeron55 |
position in a random inventory matters? |
| 09:19 |
celeron55 |
how? |
| 09:21 |
celeron55 |
random as in it is not trivially known what the geometry of the inventory is by code that handles it |
| 09:21 |
thexyz |
i have never played industrialcraft but in this mod it does; in reactor some items affect neighbors |
| 09:28 |
celeron55 |
hmm... does the crafting trivially work anywhere where there is a craftpreview and a craftresult 1x1 list? |
| 09:29 |
celeron55 |
i guess not |
| 09:30 |
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| 09:31 |
celeron55 |
< saschaheylik> celeron55: is there only one sea level throughout the game? <- yes |
| 09:37 |
thexyz |
as i already said, that can be used not only for crafting |
| 09:38 |
celeron55 |
well, my point is, if i added a stone pickaxe with a green dot at it's side with an upside-down recipe, it could be used for digging |
| 09:38 |
celeron55 |
but there'd be no point |
| 09:39 |
celeron55 |
the strongest point for having a width is crafting, so i want to figure out the best solution for it first |
| 09:42 |
celeron55 |
i am not saying your suggestion wasn't the best solution, but i have yet to find a solid example use case for it other than crafting |
| 09:43 |
celeron55 |
the reactor knows the height of it's list and expands only sideways |
| 09:43 |
celeron55 |
if considering industrialcraft |
| 09:43 |
thexyz |
then what about reactor that can expand in both directions? just imagine it =) |
| 10:52 |
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| 16:39 |
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| 17:28 |
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| 19:42 |
celeron55 |
some guy emails me saying he is having a problem with the forum captcha |
| 19:42 |
celeron55 |
does anyone else know of any problem with it? |
| 19:43 |
celeron55 |
oh fuck |
| 19:43 |
celeron55 |
apparently it doesn't indeed work |
| 19:45 |
celeron55 |
wtf |
| 19:50 |
celeron55 |
apparently there are other problems too now |
| 19:59 |
thexyz |
lol |
| 20:03 |
celeron55 |
lol |
| 20:03 |
celeron55 |
now the hoster guy timed out from irc |
| 20:03 |
celeron55 |
priceless |
| 20:16 |
thexyz |
celeron55: remember, my offer is still in effect ;) |
| 20:28 |
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| 20:32 |
celeron55 |
i will be waiting for the site to come back online and an explanation before taking any kind of action |
| 20:34 |
celeron55 |
i, in fact, have connection to the file hosting and nightly build capable machine, but the one doing the website stuff has gone |
| 20:34 |
* VanessaE |
gasps and heaves |
| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
also the db server seems to be up |
| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
odd |
| 21:19 |
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Octupus left #minetest-dev |
