| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 05:36 |
|
sfan5 joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:06 |
|
sfan5_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:28 |
sfan5 |
celeron55_: bug report! |
| 09:29 |
sfan5 |
if you type /grant <player name> all if you come from 127.0.0.1 you will get kicked ot of the game |
| 09:29 |
celeron55_ |
goes to github |
| 09:29 |
sfan5 |
..later |
| 09:29 |
celeron55_ |
alternatively you can say it here, AS LONG AS you don't hilight me |
| 09:29 |
celeron55_ |
there is no reason to hilight me because i read everything in here anyway |
| 09:30 |
celeron55_ |
and someone else is likely fix that rather than me |
| 09:30 |
sfan5 |
ok sorry |
| 09:30 |
celeron55_ |
sorry is not enough |
| 09:30 |
celeron55_ |
you must learn |
| 09:31 |
sfan5 |
i will |
| 14:48 |
|
VanessaE joined #minetest-dev |
| 15:04 |
|
jordach joined #minetest-dev |
| 16:10 |
MiJyn |
c55, I think I know the problem in speedhacking |
| 16:11 |
MiJyn |
in the speedhacking check |
| 16:11 |
MiJyn |
What about if you did "dtime*STEPS_PER_SECOND"? |
| 16:11 |
MiJyn |
and then set STEPS_PER_SECOND |
| 16:11 |
MiJyn |
before, I mean |
| 16:13 |
celeron55_ |
if you guys always keep saying everything to me, we are never going to get rid of this celeron55-centric development |
| 16:13 |
celeron55_ |
as far as i know, you don't like it either |
| 16:14 |
celeron55_ |
it's really not up to me, but up to you |
| 16:49 |
MiJyn |
haha lol |
| 17:44 |
celeron55_ |
http://hg.icculus.org/icculus/lugaru/file/97b303e79826/Source/GameTick.cpp#l7425 |
| 17:44 |
celeron55_ |
to anyone who thinks Minetest's code has ANY problems whatsoever |
| 19:27 |
MiJyn |
I don't exactly get what you mean |
| 19:27 |
MiJyn |
what does Lugaru have in common with minetest? |
| 19:28 |
celeron55_ |
it is a game that works |
| 19:30 |
MiJyn |
yes |
| 19:30 |
MiJyn |
not very well coded though |
| 19:30 |
MiJyn |
so how does that relate to minetest? |
| 19:31 |
MiJyn |
how does that say that minetest's code is flawless? |
| 19:32 |
|
MiJyn was kicked by celeron55: MiJyn |
| 19:36 |
celeron55 |
based on long term observations, that guy doesn't seem to have any incentive to do any good to minetest anyway, so i see no reason to have him here. |
| 20:15 |
|
joshdude__ joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:15 |
joshdude__ |
hi |
| 20:17 |
joshdude__ |
darkrose, is yor node-metadata patch upstream??? |
| 20:18 |
celeron55 |
they are still waiting for further testing and tweaking |
| 20:18 |
joshdude__ |
awesome! |
| 20:19 |
joshdude__ |
anything I could do to help dis project? |
| 20:19 |
joshdude__ |
its a rly fun game!!! |
| 20:22 |
celeron55 |
depending on your skills some of the modders might have something to do; see #minetest-mods and #minetest-delta |
| 20:22 |
joshdude__ |
I'm not lua programmer |
| 20:23 |
celeron55 |
well you don't sounds like a pro in C++ either |
| 20:23 |
celeron55 |
-s |
| 20:23 |
joshdude__ |
I'm not native english |
| 20:23 |
joshdude__ |
I try to learn |
| 20:23 |
celeron55 |
what have you done before? |
| 20:24 |
joshdude__ |
I have worked on IDE |
| 20:24 |
joshdude__ |
Visual IDE in C++ SDL |
| 20:24 |
celeron55 |
eh, but any, like, end results? |
| 20:25 |
joshdude__ |
still working on it :) |
| 20:25 |
joshdude__ |
since I dont like people stealing code, source is hidden |
| 20:25 |
celeron55 |
i recommend working on it instead of minetest then |
| 20:26 |
joshdude__ |
I sometimes need breaks from working on it |
| 20:26 |
joshdude__ |
so I offer to help here |
| 20:27 |
celeron55 |
what would you like to see in minetest? |
| 20:27 |
joshdude__ |
well, there are many changes I see could be done |
| 20:28 |
joshdude__ |
one of them is hunger and oxygen |
| 20:30 |
celeron55 |
you are not going to get them upstream |
| 20:30 |
joshdude__ |
you dont want dem? |
| 20:30 |
celeron55 |
that means you either want to make a mod, or make code in the engine to support the mod |
| 20:30 |
celeron55 |
like, if you want to draw the hunger bar or something, there isn't anything for doing it in a general mod-defined manner yet |
| 20:31 |
joshdude__ |
oh |
| 20:31 |
joshdude__ |
I dont think I can make mod that does dat right now, is this correct? |
| 20:32 |
joshdude__ |
so I have to write engine code for dat? |
| 20:32 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/celeron55/minetest_game/pull/3 What about a merge? |
| 20:42 |
|
VanessaE joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:43 |
joshdude__ |
hi |
| 20:43 |
sfan5 |
hi VanessaE |
| 20:43 |
VanessaE |
hi hi |
| 20:44 |
celeron55 |
sfan5: done |
| 20:44 |
sfan5 |
:) |
| 20:44 |
sfan5 |
time to run ./buildmtwin32.sh |
| 20:45 |
sfan5 |
...aaaand clear some space on ftp |
| 20:52 |
sfan5 |
delete this? http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=32539 |
| 20:55 |
celeron55 |
no. |
| 20:55 |
sfan5 |
ok |
| 20:59 |
celeron55 |
flamewars are fun |
| 21:10 |
celeron55 |
darkrose: even while you try to (apparently) maintain a "next upstream" branch, you should keep your own changes in feature branches and not fix them with others in the only occurrence of them, which is currently master |
| 21:10 |
|
sfan5 joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:10 |
celeron55 |
s/fix/mix/ |
| 21:11 |
celeron55 |
it kind of gets messy |
| 21:11 |
sfan5 |
whet gets messy? |
| 21:12 |
sfan5 |
*what |
| 21:12 |
celeron55 |
log. |
| 21:12 |
sfan5 |
hm |
| 21:12 |
celeron55 |
also, compare the style of your commit messages to mine 8) |
| 21:12 |
sfan5 |
umm.. i'm more direct? |
| 21:12 |
celeron55 |
...hell |
| 21:13 |
celeron55 |
can't you understand i am discussing with someone? |
| 21:13 |
celeron55 |
and can't you understand there is a public channel log right in the topic? |
| 21:13 |
celeron55 |
no need to spam any useless questions about what is happening |
| 21:13 |
sfan5 |
.. |
| 21:14 |
|
sfan5 left #minetest-dev |
| 21:15 |
celeron55 |
eh, i forgot i was talking to sfan5 before too |
| 21:16 |
celeron55 |
well, there is always -delta; i am sticking to being on this channel even if i get frustrated and am trying to have a break |
| 21:16 |
celeron55 |
this isn't turning out good but the alternative is me being nowhere, which is worse. |
| 21:17 |
* VanessaE |
looks at her shadow on the floor, notes it overlaps c55's, and steps aside a bit just for safety ;-) |
| 21:17 |
|
sfan5 joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:22 |
celeron55 |
darkrose: in any case and more importantly: https://github.com/darkrose/minetest/commit/96bd3f82322a3dccc6406116ed8bb8873e3a7649 |
| 21:22 |
celeron55 |
that does not look like a valid fix |
| 21:23 |
celeron55 |
it should be perfectly able to eat the input data in chunks of the size of the buffer |
| 21:23 |
celeron55 |
which apparently isn't included even in the mini unit tests that we have |
| 21:23 |
celeron55 |
well that sucks |
| 21:31 |
VanessaE |
c55: ok, I have a question... If a person wants to just chat with you, for whatever reason or subject, how should they accomplish that? (as opposed to putting off-topic stuff here) |
| 21:32 |
sfan5 |
1. hightlight celeron in delta |
| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
he's only in here. |
| 21:32 |
sfan5 |
fail |
| 21:33 |
celeron55 |
what kind of stuff? for personal stuff, for sure /msg; for any minetest stuff, most likely here |
| 21:34 |
joshdude__ |
celeron55, why did you lie to lkjoel? |
| 21:34 |
celeron55 |
lie? |
| 21:34 |
celeron55 |
when have i lied? |
| 21:34 |
sfan5 |
your post |
| 21:35 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: understood. |
| 21:35 |
celeron55 |
sfan5: what? |
| 21:35 |
sfan5 |
MiJyn (aja |
| 21:36 |
celeron55 |
i never intentionally lie about anything to anybody. period. |
| 21:36 |
joshdude__ |
[15:16] <@celeron55> well, there is always -delta; i am sticking to being on this channel even if i get frustrated and am trying to have a break [15:16] <@celeron55> this isn't turning out good but the alternative is me being nowhere, which is worse. |
| 21:36 |
sfan5 |
*aka lkjoel) just said that you lied in your post |
| 21:36 |
joshdude__ |
you said that after he got banned |
| 21:36 |
joshdude__ |
bbl |
| 21:36 |
celeron55 |
i do not understand |
| 21:37 |
celeron55 |
if somebody understand, he could attempt explaining |
| 21:38 |
celeron55 |
+s |
| 21:39 |
celeron55 |
...i assume it is nothing then |
| 21:39 |
VanessaE |
I can see an argument for an apparent double-standard perhaps. On the one hand, you want contributions. |
| 21:39 |
VanessaE |
On the other hand, you're very picky about them. |
| 21:40 |
VanessaE |
To the uninitiated, your rejections can appear more like "piss off and GTFO with your crap code" |
| 21:40 |
VanessaE |
even if that isn't your intent. |
| 21:41 |
celeron55 |
self-organization would be the most useful contribution from anyone |
| 21:42 |
VanessaE |
the problem is that you have a different definition of phrases like "use your brains" or "self-organization" than a lot of other people do. |
| 21:42 |
VanessaE |
that doesn't mean I can put either your or their definitions into words, but that's just what it looks like to me. |
| 21:42 |
celeron55 |
and what can i do about it? |
| 21:42 |
celeron55 |
all this talk is completely useless if there are no solutions |
| 21:43 |
VanessaE |
honestly? |
| 21:43 |
VanessaE |
hrm, hard to put this to words |
| 21:44 |
VanessaE |
to make any change that would improve the situation could lead to negative consequences in your projects (minetest or otherwise) |
| 21:44 |
VanessaE |
Around here, the phrase "just chill out" would probably apply best |
| 21:45 |
VanessaE |
(here = my geographical region that is) |
| 21:45 |
celeron55 |
can you just, like, start leading minetest so that i can forget about it completely? |
| 21:45 |
celeron55 |
because that sounds like a solution |
| 21:45 |
VanessaE |
heh, no |
| 21:45 |
VanessaE |
no one wants that |
| 21:45 |
celeron55 |
i don't see anything else fixing up the situation from my standpoint |
| 21:46 |
celeron55 |
"no one wants that" <- why? |
| 21:47 |
VanessaE |
because you're got the intelligence, the knowledge of the code base, and the drive to keep the project going, and you've got contributors to help add features/fix bugs |
| 21:48 |
VanessaE |
from what I gather, everyone else who could otherwise lead the project lacks at least one of those attributes |
| 21:48 |
celeron55 |
but when every bugfix either has terrible commit messages, is stuffed beside completely random stuff, actually doesn't fix anything, introduces only a new bug or so and every new feature is directly copied from minecraft, they seem completely worthless |
| 21:48 |
VanessaE |
you've* |
| 21:49 |
celeron55 |
the only worthy thing i've seen lately is darkrose implementing some or all of the form stuff kahrl (and I) planned way ago, and then some other guy (who nobody of you knows, and me barely) started some work on making a more polished, consistent and non-minecraft-clone game on the engine |
| 21:50 |
VanessaE |
ok right here lies the problem: |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE |
"terrible", "random", "copied from X", "worthless", apparent lack of worthiness |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE |
these are ALL subjective phrases |
| 21:51 |
celeron55 |
if somebody would tweak up a bunch of 20 commits fixing bugs without any minecraft influence with none of the beforementioned problems, i would happily pull it in and continue chilling out on my break |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE |
(hrm, repeated that last one, sorry) |
| 21:52 |
celeron55 |
i am just fed up with all those unfinished tiny bits and pieces |
| 21:52 |
celeron55 |
and it isn't going to get fixed up unless somebody else takes more charge of them |
| 21:52 |
VanessaE |
fair enough |
| 21:52 |
celeron55 |
it = the situation |
| 21:52 |
VanessaE |
but why do those "unfinished" bits exist in the first place |
| 21:52 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 21:54 |
celeron55 |
people are don't care about polishing their commits and do not know the importance and the time consumed by proper quality control |
| 21:54 |
celeron55 |
if i knew i could just take anything people throw at me and include it in with the click of a button and the end result would be perfect that way, i would have no problem |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
what you're worried about is more, and more obscure, bugs cropping up from those patches |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
(which you already said) |
| 21:56 |
VanessaE |
but that's something that, in my experience, has always come with the territory |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE |
it's a risk you take when you accept code from others, is what I mean |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE |
you can't expect it to be perfect. |
| 21:58 |
VanessaE |
that doesn't mean you should be expected to *fix* those bugs, |
| 21:58 |
VanessaE |
that's the job of those code contributors |
| 21:58 |
celeron55 |
peopel complain about the quality of code in minetest, and then send me patches like that |
| 21:58 |
celeron55 |
. |
| 21:58 |
VanessaE |
sorry if I seem to be vague, I'm having a hard time thinking right now. |
| 21:58 |
celeron55 |
i need not say more. |
| 21:59 |
celeron55 |
then they compain about it being a clone of minecraft, and send me patches about making lava and water form obsidian |
| 21:59 |
celeron55 |
an another period. |
| 21:59 |
VanessaE |
wel wait a sec, |
| 21:59 |
celeron55 |
then they compain about it being unstable |
| 21:59 |
celeron55 |
and so on |
| 21:59 |
VanessaE |
they're complaining because these are things that are important to THEM |
| 22:00 |
VanessaE |
that doesn't mean their complaints are necessarily valid, |
| 22:00 |
VanessaE |
but that also doesn't mean that your opinion of their complaints is necessarily correct either. |
| 22:00 |
celeron55 |
that doesn't mean their complaints aren't valid |
| 22:01 |
celeron55 |
those are all things that i have seen too, and complain myself too |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
What I'm trying to say is you're wrong a lot of the time, but you don't want to admit to it right away (usually) |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
wait, |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
better way to put it: |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
you mentioned to me some days ago how you felt it people should leave creative decisions to you |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE |
as if creativity was your exclusive domain, to borrow a phrase. |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE |
but at the same time, you've stated more than once that you want minetest to be more of an engine on top of which others can layer some actual game content. |
| 22:03 |
celeron55 |
minetest is an engine, minetest_game is a game, and all are under the project minetest, which i happen to be the lead dev of |
| 22:04 |
VanessaE |
that is the polar opposite of what you said before - you can't be the only creative force in the project and expect others to also create content. |
| 22:04 |
VanessaE |
well sure they're both lumped together, but you'd said just as much before. |
| 22:05 |
VanessaE |
do you see what I'm trying to say? |
| 22:06 |
celeron55 |
i do, but i do not see viable solutions |
| 22:06 |
celeron55 |
which kind of loses the point |
| 22:07 |
VanessaE |
I wish I could suggest a better solution, but getting you to see the point IS the point |
| 22:07 |
celeron55 |
i have seen the problem forever |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE |
what i can say is that it has to be something YOU want to change |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE |
I mean, one of those "look in the mirror" sort of issues |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE |
"is this how I really wanna act toward others" kind of thing. |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE |
you know, hollywood style :-) |
| 22:08 |
celeron55 |
it's not a matter of acting |
| 22:08 |
celeron55 |
it's a matter of how to decide things, and such |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE |
sure it is |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
how you act is a product of how you were raised and what your experienced are in the world. |
| 22:09 |
celeron55 |
i could be happy and positive to everyone and get nothing done, is that what people want? |
| 22:09 |
celeron55 |
even if people want that, i will not do it; it is against my values |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
were you raised to, for lack of a better phrase, be an ass? :-) |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
^^ note the smile there. that's a tongue-in-cheek statement :-) |
| 22:09 |
celeron55 |
i can see why you see me as an ass |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
nonono |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
I don't see you as an ass. |
| 22:10 |
celeron55 |
but again, what is the point? |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
crabby is a better word actually. |
| 22:10 |
celeron55 |
you give no real solutions, only say that be happy and smile to everyone |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
nonononono |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
you're missing the point |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
I'm not saying go all candyland on everyone |
| 22:11 |
VanessaE |
damn it I wish I had better words |
| 22:11 |
VanessaE |
there are two extremes here: |
| 22:12 |
VanessaE |
on the one end, you have Donald Trump. |
| 22:12 |
VanessaE |
on the other end, you have, ohh...let's say some random character from the movie Mary Poppins. |
| 22:12 |
VanessaE |
what's needed is something more in the middle |
| 22:13 |
VanessaE |
you don't have to put on a fake persona to make progress in rewriting things about you that you already agree are negative and affecting others. |
| 22:13 |
VanessaE |
the only real solutions I could offer are ones I figure you aren't going to take anyway |
| 22:14 |
celeron55 |
i request you to tell them, just to give some room for thought |
| 22:14 |
VanessaE |
if you were here in the US, I'd suggest to seek council - a psychologist or something - but that's probably too extreme for this situation anyway |
| 22:15 |
celeron55 |
i am not generally like this, i am just very fed up with the situation |
| 22:15 |
celeron55 |
what you see is quite minetest-specific |
| 22:15 |
celeron55 |
or, well, i am, to a certain extent for a certain aspects |
| 22:16 |
celeron55 |
but you get the point; my personality leads to this in this situation |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE |
right |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE |
now,m |
| 22:16 |
celeron55 |
when i get to work with competent people with an eye for detail and time to spend, i am very happy |
| 22:17 |
celeron55 |
or by myself |
| 22:17 |
celeron55 |
otherwise, not so much |
| 22:17 |
VanessaE |
but how do you define "competent"? |
| 22:17 |
VanessaE |
to everyone familiar with a given craft, they are themselves competent. |
| 22:17 |
celeron55 |
someone who'd be worth hiring for the job with a big pay and short deadline |
| 22:17 |
VanessaE |
ah, see there's the problem |
| 22:18 |
VanessaE |
I've seen you mention that before, but I kinda dismissed it as part of some other subject |
| 22:18 |
celeron55 |
those are not things with which i think when i go |
| 22:18 |
celeron55 |
but i they are statistically related |
| 22:18 |
celeron55 |
-i |
| 22:18 |
VanessaE |
of course. |
| 22:19 |
VanessaE |
but is such a strict selection criteria truly necessary when talking about a simple [*] open-source game+engine? |
| 22:19 |
celeron55 |
i highly approve kahrl; i also quite much approve darkrose, altough he is a bit hasty and i need to keep an eye for quality |
| 22:19 |
VanessaE |
[*] relative to something like the Linux Kernel, let's say |
| 22:19 |
celeron55 |
then there is eg. tango; i like him too, but he's busy in his dayjob and whatever |
| 22:19 |
VanessaE |
darkrose -> she, just for whatever it's worth :-) |
| 22:19 |
VanessaE |
anyway, |
| 22:19 |
celeron55 |
minetest is not simple |
| 22:20 |
celeron55 |
it's far from simple |
| 22:20 |
VanessaE |
Simple: [*] relative to something like the Linux Kernel, let's say |
| 22:20 |
VanessaE |
in other words, |
| 22:20 |
VanessaE |
it's a complex project, but there are much larger and more complex projects out there |
| 22:21 |
VanessaE |
minetest wasn't meant to be like that, was it? |
| 22:21 |
VanessaE |
complicated, businesslike, etc. |
| 22:22 |
VanessaE |
and if you approach it like you would some business proposition, it's going to turn into just that, even if it doesn't make you any money |
| 22:22 |
celeron55 |
minetest is roughly half the size of Linux 1.0.0 in terms of lines of code, and uses three or four major technologies, while linux 1.0.0 is just plain old C and x86 assembly |
| 22:23 |
celeron55 |
(1.0.0 was released '94) |
| 22:23 |
VanessaE |
"roughly half" of a project released almost 20 years ago. |
| 22:23 |
VanessaE |
think about that a sec :-) |
| 22:24 |
celeron55 |
the technologies are C++, Lua, Irrlicht and basically OpenGL or D3D too (to understand things well) |
| 22:24 |
VanessaE |
I recall Linus himself describing his early code in words that suggest it was fairly simplistic or underdeveloped. |
| 22:24 |
VanessaE |
but we're getting off the point now |
| 22:25 |
celeron55 |
linus is a magician in terms of community leadership; you can't compare anyone to him |
| 22:25 |
VanessaE |
oh hell no |
| 22:25 |
VanessaE |
but consider this: |
| 22:25 |
celeron55 |
he's humble in his talk, but he knows what to do and what to say |
| 22:26 |
VanessaE |
would a hardcore businessman have said, in plain English, "nVidia, Fuck you!" :-) |
| 22:26 |
VanessaE |
probably not. |
| 22:26 |
celeron55 |
i would say that |
| 22:26 |
celeron55 |
or maybe not; depends |
| 22:26 |
VanessaE |
heh, do that around here and you'll quickly find yourself looking for new contacts :) |
| 22:26 |
celeron55 |
probably with his experiences with nvidia i would |
| 22:27 |
VanessaE |
at any rate, |
| 22:28 |
VanessaE |
with this community it's plainly obvious that you can't get away with that, at least if you don't use enough smileys |
| 22:28 |
VanessaE |
the previously-discussed culture clash and so forth |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE |
my husband, who has never played minecraft or minetest, and who has just finished reading the logs, offers the following advice, for whatever it's worth: |
| 22:31 |
VanessaE |
"Get your head out of your ass" |
| 22:31 |
VanessaE |
(it's funny, laugh. :-) ) |
| 22:32 |
celeron55 |
i am most interested in hearing what that means in practice |
| 22:33 |
celeron55 |
and yes, i am repeating myself |
| 22:33 |
VanessaE |
hang on, trying to get something other than euphemisms from him |
| 22:35 |
VanessaE |
well what he's saying is what I already said: |
| 22:36 |
celeron55 |
i mean, when somebody comes to me with so useless information even the toilet would decline flushing it down or so bad a commit even rewriting every character in it wouldn't help at all, and even worse distracts me by hilighting me on IRC, asking for a reply, when i am focusing on something completely different, what do I do? |
| 22:36 |
celeron55 |
i don't fancy /ignoring every person in the world |
| 22:37 |
VanessaE |
he's saying you have to look at yourself and decide "damn it, this is just wrong. I need to stop being this way." |
| 22:37 |
celeron55 |
it is just wrong, but the only solution i see is /part |
| 22:37 |
VanessaE |
no |
| 22:37 |
celeron55 |
it's a good solution |
| 22:37 |
VanessaE |
if the highlights bug you, can't you just ignore them? |
| 22:38 |
VanessaE |
(I mean literally, pay no attention) |
| 22:38 |
celeron55 |
it gets rid of all problems from my part, and the problem of me being an ass in the future from your part |
| 22:39 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: no, because i need to look them in case they are something important; eg. somebody finding out there is a serious security flaw in all minetest servers or that like |
| 22:39 |
VanessaE |
yeah but it causes a major negative: no one can reach you then - you don't frequent the forums (very often anyway), you aren't in any other channels, you don't want to be highlighted so /msg is out I would have assumed, and emails are easy to just deletge or ignore too |
| 22:39 |
celeron55 |
and yes, i am always prepared to fix such a thing as fast as possible |
| 22:39 |
VanessaE |
but see? that's the problem - what you define as important and what your users define as such is totally different |
| 22:39 |
celeron55 |
a thing that is 1000 times more important than what people regularly report |
| 22:40 |
VanessaE |
-g |
| 22:41 |
VanessaE |
let me give you an example: |
| 22:41 |
VanessaE |
ah, this is perfect: |
| 22:41 |
celeron55 |
so you are saying i should generally just ignore everything people say to me, by not even looking what they are saying? |
| 22:41 |
celeron55 |
that sounds odd |
| 22:42 |
VanessaE |
look at how you responded to bug #149: in summary, "see no solution. it's irrlicht's fault." |
| 22:42 |
celeron55 |
it's a completely valid technical analysis of it |
| 22:42 |
VanessaE |
not really, no. |
| 22:42 |
celeron55 |
everybody would approve it based on the actual evidence i have |
| 22:43 |
VanessaE |
horrible analysis of it, but that isn't my point |
| 22:43 |
celeron55 |
i will not listen you if you base anything on that comment |
| 22:43 |
VanessaE |
*sigh* |
| 22:43 |
VanessaE |
herein lies the rub. |
| 22:44 |
celeron55 |
well try then |
| 22:44 |
celeron55 |
i bet i will just facepalm for the rest of the night |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
let me see if I can put this in a way that doesn't sound wrong:\ |
| 22:45 |
celeron55 |
that bug is basically half a year old, and it has been discussed many times; i even bet it actually is in the github issue list but i couldn't find it by a quick glance |
| 22:46 |
VanessaE |
a coder's time is best spend doing four things regarding their program, roughly in order: Writing the underlying code, fixing bugs that result in an eventual crash, fixing other bugs that don't, and adding new features. |
| 22:46 |
VanessaE |
these were the core principles that I learned back in the 80's anyway |
| 22:46 |
celeron55 |
i might or might not agree; so? |
| 22:47 |
VanessaE |
what you've been doing is a bit different: working on code that's interesting to you, fixing bugs that bother you, then working on everything else. |
| 22:48 |
celeron55 |
that bug bothers me by no doubt |
| 22:48 |
VanessaE |
(legitimate pursuits, of course - but that's what's leading to the most complaints) |
| 22:48 |
celeron55 |
hell, i wish you were an actually capable C++ developer |
| 22:48 |
VanessaE |
so do I |
| 22:48 |
VanessaE |
I'd love to help |
| 22:48 |
celeron55 |
the stacktrace that bug causes is horrible |
| 22:49 |
celeron55 |
you can't tell anything from it |
| 22:49 |
VanessaE |
but my coding experiences doing go beyond BASIC, 6502 assembly, and a smattering of scripting languages. |
| 22:49 |
celeron55 |
and the chatconsole code has been originally made by kahrl |
| 22:49 |
VanessaE |
the bug report I was reading has no stacktrace |
| 22:50 |
VanessaE |
so there must be more than one/duplicate |
| 22:50 |
VanessaE |
but either way, |
| 22:50 |
celeron55 |
most development and stuff happens in IRC |
| 22:50 |
celeron55 |
and pastebins |
| 22:50 |
celeron55 |
or at least used to happen |
| 22:50 |
VanessaE |
so the stacktrace sucks - but that begs the question: how come you haven't seen one yourself? |
| 22:51 |
VanessaE |
(a stacktrace from it crashing for you I mean) |
| 22:51 |
celeron55 |
why don't you just directly say that i sould dig it up somewhere and put it there? |
| 22:51 |
VanessaE |
nonono |
| 22:51 |
VanessaE |
that's not what I am saying. |
| 22:52 |
celeron55 |
this discussion is leading nowhere |
| 22:52 |
VanessaE |
what I'm saying is that you complain about something like that being no good yet, for nearly everyone playing the game, that crash happens at least somewhat often, but yet you haven't generated better crash output? |
| 22:53 |
celeron55 |
...................................................... |
| 22:53 |
VanessaE |
I'm not saying I want you to fix this bug by the way, I'm just using it as an example. |
| 22:53 |
celeron55 |
yeah i can just press a button and get better crash output, sure |
| 22:53 |
VanessaE |
(a poor one, apparently) |
| 22:53 |
VanessaE |
*facepalm* |
| 22:54 |
celeron55 |
this is my hobby; i do stuff when i see it as being even remotely rewarding without asking for a pay |
| 22:55 |
VanessaE |
exactly |
| 22:55 |
celeron55 |
fixing that bug is not even remotely rewarding |
| 22:55 |
VanessaE |
you've just hit on the core issue |
| 22:55 |
VanessaE |
it's a *hobby*, but you're trying to treat it like a business, and when you do that, the hobby ceases to be fun |
| 22:55 |
VanessaE |
I know this for a solid fact: I took my electronics hobby and made a business out of it. Now? It sucks. I hate it. |
| 22:56 |
VanessaE |
I dread every order that comes in, but I keep the store open because the money is of course of benefit |
| 22:57 |
celeron55 |
i recognize your problem fairly well |
| 22:57 |
VanessaE |
the difference of course being I did it for money, you didn't - but we both have followed the same philosophy |
| 22:58 |
VanessaE |
like you, I don't see any solution except to just quit |
| 22:58 |
VanessaE |
and that's worse. |
| 22:58 |
celeron55 |
but if something is a hobby, you need to have some kind of a passion for it |
| 22:58 |
VanessaE |
(my other solution, in case you're interested, is to outsource the assembly of my devices) |
| 22:58 |
VanessaE |
passion? I had plenty of that. Anyone in that field will tell you the same. |
| 22:59 |
celeron55 |
i don't really have enough passion for minetest to take it further; i only strive to keep it from not going down, in case somebody can take it further |
| 23:00 |
VanessaE |
brb, phone |
| 23:01 |
celeron55 |
by the way, one should note that i have been sleepy for three hours and the time is 02:00; my stuff is going to only get more negative |
| 23:01 |
celeron55 |
(until i sleep, that is) |
| 23:02 |
VanessaE |
ok, then let's call it a night. Maybe after you sleep for a bit you'll have a better perspect9ive. |
| 23:02 |
VanessaE |
-9 |
| 23:03 |
celeron55 |
i am very disappointed in my break-taking skills |
| 23:05 |
celeron55 |
http://www.datamation.com/open-source/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-community-burnout-1.html |
| 23:06 |
celeron55 |
this was raised roughly a year ago on -delta |
| 23:10 |
celeron55 |
back then i argued, perfectly validly, that burnout requires stress, and i do not get stressed by much at all |
| 23:10 |
celeron55 |
currently i AM stressed |
| 23:14 |
celeron55 |
... |
| 23:14 |
celeron55 |
i think i just have too high hopes for 0.4.0 |
| 23:14 |
celeron55 |
i'll release it tomorrow as-is and then i we have as piss-poor crappy unstable development builds as is even possible |
| 23:14 |
celeron55 |
-i |
| 23:14 |
celeron55 |
+can |
| 23:18 |
celeron55 |
actually i'll do it exactly now |
| 23:19 |
celeron55 |
i'll just get something to eat and drink and get cranking 8) lol |
| 23:23 |
celeron55 |
the current github version is as stable it can get |
| 23:23 |
GTRsdk |
hopefully with the lava bucket bug fixed? |
| 23:23 |
celeron55 |
ehm |
| 23:23 |
celeron55 |
what is that? |
| 23:23 |
celeron55 |
and who the hell are you? 8D |
| 23:25 |
GTRsdk |
oh you merged the pull request |
| 23:34 |
celeron55 |
cherry-picked some small patches from darkrose's branch; nothing big though |
| 23:34 |
celeron55 |
there is time for testing the stableness of those sometime later |
| 23:40 |
VanessaE |
there, finally |
| 23:41 |
VanessaE |
reading back, c55 I hope you're joking re: piss-poor quality :-) |
| 23:41 |
celeron55 |
who the hell is Jonathan Neuschäfer |
| 23:41 |
VanessaE |
no clue |
| 23:59 |
VanessaE |
c55: interesting article you linked to. |
