Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-delta, 2012-10-10

| Channels | #minetest-delta index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:34 Kray joined #minetest-delta
01:47 T_A_N_K joined #minetest-delta
03:54 jyfl987 joined #minetest-delta
03:55 jyfl987 VanessaE: tried the newest minetest game , its good
03:55 jyfl987 and found the released mod on forum is very well
04:16 Calinou joined #minetest-delta
05:11 LunaVorax joined #minetest-delta
05:20 neko259 joined #minetest-delta
05:58 Anchakor_ joined #minetest-delta
06:04 jyfl987 is there any explatation for how 3d model for item/stuff/mob works
06:04 jyfl987 what i see is many png file
06:05 VanessaE it's some exploit of the wield_item option
06:05 VanessaE nodebox-based
06:05 jyfl987 any documents?
06:06 VanessaE I haven't seen anything explaining how to do it outside of normal nodes
06:06 VanessaE but the MOBF framework is where it's used most
06:07 jyfl987 VanessaE: so for normal item like a block you just give 6 side looking image?
06:08 VanessaE for a block, yes, for a nodebox you define it as a collection of rectilinear objects
06:08 VanessaE those are fitted together, and then the images you provide are overlaid as if projected from the sides
06:09 jyfl987 how to define a nodebox?
06:09 VanessaE minetest.register_node(  blah blah
06:09 VanessaE drawtype = "nodebox"
06:09 VanessaE other stuff here
06:09 jyfl987 nope i mean the vert data
06:09 VanessaE node_box = {
06:10 VanessaE type = "fixed"
06:10 VanessaE fixed = {
06:10 VanessaE { x1, y1, z1, x2, y2, z2 },
06:10 VanessaE (repeat for as many objects as you need)
06:10 VanessaE }
06:10 VanessaE }
06:10 VanessaE })
06:10 jyfl987 got it
06:10 VanessaE something of that form anyway
06:11 VanessaE the two sets of x/y/z coords define opposing corners of the box
06:11 jyfl987 so if you defined a nodebox with n block, you need to provide n*6 image for that?
06:11 VanessaE nope
06:11 jyfl987 1?
06:11 VanessaE only max 6 images, as part of the usual tiles = {}  field
06:12 VanessaE they'll be projected onto the assembly of boxes
06:12 jyfl987 oop , so its all normal vert model
06:12 VanessaE so every box's face that points, say, toward -X will get part of the image you plugged in for -X in tiles={}
06:12 jyfl987 no stick out/in block
06:13 VanessaE you can make nodebox-based nodes in any shape you want as long as you can fashion it out of rectilinear primitives
06:14 VanessaE but if you have say, a handle that stick out and above the body of an object - for example a valve - whatever appears on the top face of the handle would also appear on the same face of the body
06:14 jyfl987 ah, you mean each image is a 3d projection or each side's node
06:15 VanessaE flat projection from that side
06:15 jyfl987 got it
06:15 jyfl987 then how you define mob?
06:15 VanessaE as if you fashioned your model out of glass and then placed six movie projectors around it, one per face.
06:15 jyfl987 since mob need to move there blocks
06:16 VanessaE I don't know how those 3d mobs work, except that they aren't animated at
06:16 VanessaE all
06:16 jyfl987 and i see 3d animal mod, why the role still a 2d shape?
06:17 VanessaE eh?
06:17 jyfl987 have you ever played in a remote server?
06:17 VanessaE frequently.
06:17 jyfl987 when you see other user
06:17 VanessaE oh
06:17 VanessaE you mean the player sprite
06:17 jyfl987 isnt that a 2d shape like
06:18 VanessaE simple:  celeron55 it stubborn :-)
06:18 jyfl987 yes
06:18 VanessaE is*
06:18 jyfl987 well no one fork that and solve it?
06:18 VanessaE someone did solve it in blockplanet/minetest++ months ago, but c55 said he doesn't want that type of mob/player model system
06:19 VanessaE (frankly, I don't either - I'd prefer something more game-like, like the player/bots models in OpenArena)
06:19 jyfl987 ok, then have you ever feel stuck when you installing some mods?
06:19 Calinou now go code transparency sorting
06:19 Calinou this is required for proper 3D model support
06:19 Calinou have fun
06:19 VanessaE (now that we're talking about him, he will show up just any time now)
06:19 Calinou thou shalt not highlight the God(R)
06:21 jyfl987 VanessaE: i dislike that because its not seems the block based game type
06:21 VanessaE true, but I'd have to say the way blockplanet and minecraft did it is even worse
06:22 jyfl987 and yesterday i have install jordan's essetinals mod , i feel sometimes its frozen/lag when playing on local server
06:22 jyfl987 i was wondering if its the lua's problem
06:22 Calinou minecraft models are hardcoded :| I remember searching around in the .jar file for models :p
06:22 Calinou back when I started playing it
06:23 jyfl987 Calinou: and i tried your mod
06:23 Calinou what mod?
06:23 jyfl987 Calinou: its good :]
06:23 jyfl987 more ore?
06:23 Calinou ah
06:23 VanessaE jyfl987: partly lua yes - it depends on which mod and how slow its code it
06:23 VanessaE but sometimes the map generator is just slow
06:23 jyfl987 yep
06:23 VanessaE hmmmm said he figured out some ways to speed it up tremendously
06:23 VanessaE like 10x or better from what I gather
06:24 jyfl987 my machine at home is a intel i7 2600 + 16G ram , and its still cant let me prevents the lag
06:24 jyfl987 VanessaE: i have said we need low level scripting api like a vm
06:24 jyfl987 not a lua
06:24 VanessaE no way
06:24 VanessaE a virtual machine would only be slower.
06:25 jyfl987 nope actually lua has its own vm
06:25 VanessaE compile the Lua.
06:25 Calinou compiled mods are slower, sfan5|OFF said
06:25 Calinou VanessaE: and by changing a single line, you can speed it up by 2x
06:25 VanessaE if they're slower, then the compiler sucks big time
06:25 jyfl987 if you dont leave lua then at least give luajit2 a try :]
06:25 Calinou now c-fifty-five should add that fix
06:25 Calinou I wonder how do you run a compiled mod
06:26 VanessaE jyfl987: thexyz did.  he said it wasn't helpful at all
06:26 jyfl987 VanessaE: then maybe the lag caused by io
06:26 jyfl987 like udp stuff , db access/ no caching , etc
06:26 jyfl987 i dont like cpp, so couldnt help
06:27 VanessaE jyfl987: according to hmmmm, the map generator is slow because of the game's perlin noise code and how it is used
06:27 VanessaE s/game's/engine's/
06:28 jyfl987 VanessaE: but the udp based protocol is also a problem, i have expierences while playing on local server, it sometimes lag
06:28 VanessaE jyfl987: the map generator is the cause.  this has already been pretty much worked out.
06:29 jyfl987 no, its like when you drop ore in fortune, it will lag and response you after 1 secs
06:30 VanessaE oh that part of the lag
06:30 jyfl987 isnt that the network's problem?
06:30 VanessaE dunno about that
06:30 jyfl987 and i play on local server!!
06:30 jyfl987 so i insist to use tcp instead of udp
06:30 Calinou you must use UDP
06:31 Calinou VanessaE: 0.3/early 0.4 map gen was quite fast :P
06:31 VanessaE Calinou: I know.
06:32 VanessaE why do we still use a map generator that is so widely agreed to be slow, sub-optimal, and sometimes boring?
06:32 VanessaE I mean, can we not roll back to pre-0.4 code for that, or is it just too different now?
06:33 jyfl987 Calinou: why i must to use?
06:34 jyfl987 do you use rudp? or what?
06:37 jyfl987 VanessaE: Calinou  and which step will trigger new map generating?  1, user entry a area that just at the border 2, user entry a area that in its forward it has N area at from the border, N might be 2, 3, ...
06:38 VanessaE N mapblocks from the user's current position pretty much in all directions
06:38 Calinou the block generation range can be changed in minetest.conf
06:40 jyfl987 then how about that in Z axis?
06:40 jyfl987 i mean height
06:40 jyfl987 high
06:40 VanessaE I wish there were a way to force the map generator to just throw away the whole map except for what's been built or dug, and generate anew against that
06:40 VanessaE (for fixing corrupted maps, or allowing ore generation when a new nod is added, etc)
06:40 VanessaE hmmmm said that writing a program to do that would be trivial
06:41 VanessaE (I really *really* wish he'd pick a real nick already)
06:43 jyfl987 Calinou: btw, when i see your moreore mod, i say, why not let those steel/golden tool could been put in furnace to burned back to steel/gold?
06:43 Calinou haha, recycling? maybe :P
06:43 jyfl987 we did that in offline world, isnt it?
06:44 Calinou feel free to make it yourself and send me the pull request on github
06:44 Calinou https://github.com/Calinou/calinou_mods
06:44 Calinou :P
06:44 jyfl987 Calinou: ok, will try that
06:44 Calinou I'll make the textures later, no need to make them
06:44 jyfl987 Calinou: and i hope we could give a mod pack like essentials
06:44 VanessaE I don't see what's wrong with recycling
06:44 jyfl987 the default mods are so less
06:44 Calinou there is, see jordan4ibanez's mod
06:44 VanessaE I put a simple function in vessels for that
06:45 VanessaE (any glass item , if crafted into vessels:glass_fragments, can be smelted back to regular glass blocks)
06:45 jyfl987 Calinou: i have tried that, and i have told that made me feel lag
06:45 Calinou what are your computer's specs?
06:46 jyfl987 VanessaE: and for farming i hope the water could be consume
06:46 VanessaE the problem with "essential" mod packs is each person's definition of the same is different
06:46 jyfl987 Calinou: intel i7 2600 + 16G ram  win7 64bit
06:46 Calinou more ram than me!
06:46 Calinou and your graphics card?
06:46 jyfl987 well maybe its the MS's beating of opengl? i should try on ubuntu at home this evening
06:46 VanessaE for me, it better have homedecor, moreores, moreblocks, and a number of others - for someone else, it might need to have the various hostile mobs from animals or simple mobs, along with some medieval theme
06:47 jyfl987 Calinou: i am a server-side engineer
06:47 jyfl987 Calinou: and now my work is data mining so ram is really important to me :]
06:47 Calinou inb4 bitcoin mining
06:47 VanessaE datamining?  BURN THE HERETIC!
06:47 jyfl987 Calinou: the graphics card is a nv gt430
06:47 VanessaE ;)
06:47 Calinou ah
06:47 Calinou opengl works fine for me
06:47 Calinou i7 2600K, 12GB ram, nvidia 570gtx, win7 64 bit
06:48 jyfl987 Calinou: they said microsoft beat opengl for their DX
06:48 VanessaE datamining - aka we know what you will eat for breakfast tomorrow and intend to help someone try to sell you a side dish to go with it :-)
06:48 Calinou DX can go fuck itself
06:48 Calinou I use opengl under windows whenever I can
06:48 Calinou because I don't use AMD :p
06:48 jyfl987 VanessaE: well , yes actually we know where you have arrived and which network you have used/using
06:48 jyfl987 VanessaE: and we trace your clicking/buying/etc
06:48 Calinou what annoys me about nvidia is their refusal (is that a word?) to open source their (terrible but fast) drivers :|
06:49 Calinou why? they'd lose no money
06:49 Calinou I bet noone wants to see their horrible coding style
06:49 VanessaE jyfl987: which is why I make a point to run an adblocker and so forth
06:49 Calinou jyfl987: suddenly: chromium, ixquick/startpage
06:49 Calinou and adblock
06:49 jyfl987 Calinou: i can understand
06:49 VanessaE Calinou: refusal is a word, yes.
06:49 jyfl987 Calinou: because nowaday's graghic cards is just common chip
06:50 VanessaE they complain that it's patents and NDAs that is the problem
06:50 jyfl987 Calinou: their firmware is the key-note
06:50 VanessaE licensing shit from some other company
06:50 jyfl987 VanessaE: well i mining data from mobile ad domain,
06:51 Calinou VanessaE: mesa driver has patented stuff but it is open source
06:51 jyfl987 VanessaE: like ios/android :]
06:51 Calinou it can be disabled when compiling it
06:51 Calinou both suck
06:51 Calinou cyanogenmod ftw (I don't even have a phone anyway, but if I do, the android ROM will suffer)
06:51 VanessaE I say reconfigure the patent system entirely - if it ain't a piece of hardware or it's more than 2 years old, NO PATENT.
06:51 VanessaE (or expire any patent that exists)
06:51 Calinou patents should not even exist
06:51 Calinou regardless if hardware or software
06:51 Calinou and reverse engineering should always be allowed
06:52 VanessaE I can see an argument for minimal length of time on patents, e.g. two years
06:52 VanessaE but beyond that?  fuck off
06:52 Calinou btw: the nouveau/mesa drivers support opengl 3.1 now :D
06:52 Calinou and some opengl 4 stuff
06:52 VanessaE so I heard
06:52 jyfl987 VanessaE: yep, the time is the problem, but maybe we could make it 5-8 years,
06:52 Calinou fun patent: apple owns a patent on smooth corners
06:53 Calinou no jok
06:53 Calinou joke*
06:53 VanessaE yup
06:53 jyfl987 i dont agree with no patent
06:53 jyfl987 but i agree with reduce the patent time for less then 10/20 years
06:54 Calinou 2 years seems fair enough
06:54 CiaranG joined #minetest-delta
06:54 VanessaE Calinou: you know how certain old 8-bit computers do their cursors not by XORing the screen but by swapping the screen char with some other symbol?  Some company from the 70's owned, at the time, a patent for XOR'ing a screen cursor
06:54 Calinou opponents are part of the game; deal with them and don't be a "copyfag"
06:54 VanessaE (some drafting/CAD program crosshairs)
06:54 jyfl987 its better to use 4 years, like precident voting, when you got a patent , it make you the leader of the market, but after 4 years , we need to replay the game
06:55 VanessaE how stupid does that sound, right?
06:55 Calinou president*
06:55 Calinou OBAMA'S LOOSE!
06:55 * Calinou lives in france anyway
06:56 VanessaE fuck patents - ESPECIALLY software patents.
06:56 jyfl987 anyway , i hope if i could provide script for generating the texture
06:56 jyfl987 so that it willr reduce the network usage
06:56 Calinou there are no software patents in europe; however some europe guys are willing to allow software patents in europe
06:56 Calinou I hope not :<
06:56 VanessaE 2 years on hardware and ONLY IF YOU CAN PROVIDE A PROTOTYPE THAT WORKS, and sero patents on software or anything else
06:56 Calinou inb4 "a mod to a game" is patented
06:56 Calinou that will happen 8)
06:56 VanessaE zero*
06:57 VanessaE Calinou: prior art :-)
06:57 jyfl987 Calinou: i dont like europe's system
06:57 VanessaE (as if that ever stopped anyone...)
06:57 jyfl987 it feed so many lazy guys
06:57 Calinou what annoys me too is people (consumers) don't do anything against that -- like walled gardens.
06:57 jyfl987 i prefer US's
06:57 Calinou eg. they still use mp3, while android plays .ogg just fine
06:57 VanessaE yup
06:57 Calinou .ogg has better compression than .mp3 and is patent free
06:57 Calinou why use .mp3?
06:57 VanessaE habit.  inertia
06:58 VanessaE everyone knows what an mp3 is, most don't know what ogg is
06:58 jyfl987 Calinou: if you want zero software patent, why not migrate to new zealand?
06:58 jyfl987 they just remove that
06:58 Calinou europe doesn't have software patents for now
06:58 VanessaE fuck software patents.  fuck them with a long, rusty nail.
06:58 Calinou it might or might not have in the future
06:59 Calinou this means, fuck them with debian stable?
06:59 Calinou </unfunny joke>
06:59 VanessaE LOL!
06:59 VanessaE no, slackware :D
06:59 jyfl987 take care of your dick, it has been use to frequencely :]
06:59 jyfl987 cold down
06:59 jyfl987 s/to/too/
06:59 VanessaE eh?
07:00 * VanessaE points to her name.  um?
07:00 jyfl987 i see you `fuck` so frequncely :]
07:00 VanessaE yeah well women fuck too :-)
07:01 jyfl987 VanessaE: so how the engine reference the texture? by a file or a area of memory that extract from a file?
07:01 VanessaE I don't know how it's done internally, but in a mod you reference it by filename,
07:01 VanessaE I guess the game caches the textures in memory though
07:02 jyfl987 so if i could provide a memory's point, may i could provide a mode that dynamic generate the texture
07:02 VanessaE possibly
07:03 jyfl987 this is useful for painting
07:04 jyfl987 yesterday i saw a letters mod on forum
07:04 VanessaE there are two such mods
07:04 VanessaE actually three or four if you count thexys's signs mod
07:04 jyfl987 and i think why not use the crafting grid as a point arraw input
07:05 jyfl987 thexys's ?
07:05 VanessaE thexyz's sorry.
07:05 VanessaE he did a signs mod that is nodebox-based and displays the text ON the sign
07:05 VanessaE (instead of needing a mouseover)
07:06 VanessaE PilzAdam rewrote that mod to put the text entry into a single line with some very simple formatting markup
07:06 VanessaE it makes dynamic textures by way of a "combine" modifier that's passed to irrlicht I guess
07:06 jyfl987 hmm, supporting Postscript?
07:06 VanessaE no, think simpler
07:06 jyfl987 VanessaE: like logo language?
07:06 VanessaE like a pipe | character = newline
07:07 jyfl987 x0 y0 x1 y1 rectangle draw
07:07 jyfl987 oh, i checked that
07:08 jyfl987 but if it could makes dynamic textures, i will try to make a painting block
07:08 VanessaE someone did that already
07:08 VanessaE jin_xi wrote a mod that lets you paint pictures and hang them on walls
07:08 jyfl987 but i doubt he just use irrclient's drawText api
07:08 jyfl987 jin_xi? this names seems a chinese
07:08 VanessaE jin_xi.
07:08 jyfl987 VanessaE: tell me the url
07:09 VanessaE paintings:  http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2588
07:10 Calinou TIL git additions/deletons are lines, not bytes
07:10 VanessaE signs:  http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2736
07:10 bookwar joined #minetest-delta
07:10 VanessaE and pilzadam's version:  http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3289
07:11 jyfl987 VanessaE: jin_xi's is enough, i just want to check the code for learning
07:13 jyfl987 VanessaE: checked that code, and found that it just using small brush image file as the texture
07:14 VanessaE yes, it uses dyes for the colors
07:14 jyfl987 i dont know whether it will lag the game if i use a 1x1 brush for painting
07:22 jyfl987 is there any mod performance profiling toggle?
07:22 VanessaE dunno
07:22 jyfl987 where is c55
09:34 Calinou joined #minetest-delta
10:46 NakedFury joined #minetest-delta
12:13 Weedy_lappy joined #minetest-delta
13:00 bookwar joined #minetest-delta
13:15 Anchakor_ joined #minetest-delta
13:55 yunfan joined #minetest-delta
14:09 yunfan VanessaE: a problem, how to let map generator to generate your adds block or nodebox?
14:10 yunfan i have tried farming mod, but the problem is i dont want to play that under creative mode, so i need it could be found in nature map
14:40 te3_ joined #minetest-delta
14:58 Calinou joined #minetest-delta
15:10 PilzAdam joined #minetest-delta
15:29 celeron55 http://antigate.com/
15:31 Calinou seems legit
15:31 Calinou better have doors rather than gates
15:41 yunfan celeron55: i have make a chinese tranlastion file , how to use it?
15:48 rubenwardy joined #minetest-delta
15:49 Calinou yunfan: first compile the game with gettext support to enable it, then put your .po files in appropriate places
15:49 Calinou then there should be some cmake/make setting to force it to a language..
15:49 Calinou cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DENABLE_GETTEXT=1
15:50 yunfan ok just try
15:52 yunfan seems not work
15:52 Calinou :/ not a cmake expert, maybe you need to put the two options in a different way :p
15:52 Calinou run_in_place is best but not required
15:53 PilzAdam where to put the *.po file?
15:53 Calinou minetest/po/<language code>/minetest.po
15:54 PilzAdam i get these 2 lines in log: 17:53:59: INFO[main]: locale has been set to:de_DE.UTF-8
15:54 PilzAdam 17:53:59: INFO[main]: locale has been set to:C
15:54 PilzAdam it sets it to german but then to C
15:55 yunfan de?
15:55 Calinou C local is the default
15:55 Calinou de = german, yes
15:55 Calinou cn is chinese iirc
15:56 yunfan 23:55:36: INFO[main]: locale has been set to:zh_CN.utf8
15:56 yunfan minetest output this, but still in english
15:56 PilzAdam Calinou, why does it set it back to c?
15:56 Calinou then the locale name should be zh
15:56 Calinou PilzAdam: no idea, but it works fine anyway
15:56 yunfan ooop, i met the same problem it has been set back to c
15:56 PilzAdam it doesnt work
15:57 Calinou at least... it used to work for me
15:57 yunfan 23:56:41: INFO[main]: locale has been set to:C
16:31 OWNSyouAll joined #minetest-delta
17:03 neko259 joined #minetest-delta
17:03 OWNSyouAll joined #minetest-delta
17:07 mrtux joined #minetest-delta
17:14 OWNSyouAll joined #minetest-delta
17:29 OWNSyouAll joined #minetest-delta
17:45 OWNSyouAll joined #minetest-delta
17:54 Exio joined #minetest-delta
18:01 bookwar joined #minetest-delta
18:36 NakedFury joined #minetest-delta
18:37 OWNSyouAll joined #minetest-delta
19:18 \n joined #minetest-delta
19:35 CiaranG joined #minetest-delta
19:35 CiaranG joined #minetest-delta
19:54 CiaranG joined #minetest-delta
20:09 LunaVorax joined #minetest-delta
20:26 NakedFury joined #minetest-delta
21:22 CiaranG joined #minetest-delta
21:35 CiaranG joined #minetest-delta
22:14 auggards joined #minetest-delta
23:35 T_A_N_K joined #minetest-delta

| Channels | #minetest-delta index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext