Time  Nick       Message
03:00 * mrtux    is away: going to bed
04:59 SmugLeaf   > he actuually listens to what his fans have to contribute
05:00 SmugLeaf   celeron55: I lol'ed so hard my girl asked me to shut up
06:20 MiJyn      celeron55 has some interesting people he likes...
06:20 MiJyn      so I'm not surprised he doesn't mind Mallot1
06:20 MiJyn      though Mallot1 is a nice guy
06:20 MiJyn      or seems to be (from what I read)
10:16 PilzAdam   why do the dropped items blink?
10:50 celeron55  invisible disco
10:51 VanessaE   ?
10:51 VanessaE   "invisible disco"...a police officer with cloaked red/blue lights? :-)
16:44 celeron55  hmm
16:45 PilzAdam   hmm what?
16:47 celeron55  i'm thinking about abusing reddit as a voting system for stuff to be included in minetest - only stuff that already exists would be allowed there; it would give a good numeric idea of what users think they need
16:47 celeron55  a new subreddit for that
16:48 celeron55  if anyone else thinks that is even a remotely good idea, i'll try that
16:48 VanessaE   it's worth a shot
16:49 VanessaE   but it has one possible flaw:  getting everyone on the forums to actually go there; is there a way to raise an actual poll in the forum?  I mean a proper one of course.
16:49 PilzAdam   that would be nice
16:50 celeron55  well, there would need to be a way to vote up and down on topics
16:50 celeron55  i'll see if there is an extension for that
16:50 celeron55  actually no, it isn't going to work
16:50 celeron55  it'd require pretty much exactly the behavior that reddit has, and punbb isn't going to do that by a large chance
16:51 VanessaE   http://punbb.informer.com/wiki/punbb13/extensions/pun_poll
16:51 VanessaE   such an extension apparently exists :-)
16:51 VanessaE   though doing it through reddit would be less work
16:51 celeron55  that is completely different
16:51 celeron55  it's the generic kind of forum poll, not even remotely useful
16:55 celeron55  it just can't be done with punbb, which is exactly why i am looking at reddit
16:55 PilzAdam   if it was integrated into the forum you would get more feedback
16:55 celeron55  of course i could just code it from scratch too
16:57 celeron55  it would be at least quite unique
17:02 celeron55  i'll look into this more instead of rushing with something random
17:11 MiJyn      Where's Mallot1?
17:26 Calinou    dunno
17:28 Calinou    celeron55, about http://www.reddit.com/r/minetest_c55 - minetest is now LGPL, not GPL ;)
17:36 celeron55  apparently there is an extension called pun_karma
17:37 thexyz     that's users' karma i guess
17:38 thexyz     oh, i'm wrong, forget it
17:38 celeron55  it implements voting on posts... hmm... maybe i could fork it into one that allows only for topics and doesn't do any karma thing
17:38 celeron55  that'd allow voting for popularity
17:38 thexyz     just make it to be displayed only for first post in thread
17:39 celeron55  then there'd need to be a way to make them sort by votes in a certain forum section
17:39 celeron55  (instead of activity)
17:40 celeron55  where can i find a list of punbb hooks with descriptions...
17:42 celeron55  sorting seems to not have any hooks, it's just like:
17:42 celeron55  'ORDER BY'  => 't.sticky DESC, '.(($cur_forum['sort_by'] == '1') ? 't.posted' : 't.last_post').' DESC',
17:43 celeron55  well that's pretty dumb, but at least easy to understand
17:48 celeron55  hmm, maybe there'd be use for user karma too
17:49 VanessaE   well fwiw slashdotters complain about it sometimes for being misused, but it works well most of the time there.
17:50 celeron55  well, it'll surely be misused, but it arguably gives more than takes
17:50 VanessaE   yup
17:51 celeron55  by the way, i just realized punbb can sort topics per section by original post date instead of last post date too
17:51 celeron55  that _might_ be useful for mod releases, maybe
17:51 celeron55  probably not
17:51 VanessaE   YES
17:52 celeron55  then stuff like mesecons will go very far down on the list
17:52 VanessaE   hm
17:52 celeron55  but on the other hand, currently the place on the list is determined by loud-mouth trolls
17:53 celeron55  eh, how stupid i am? it could use the vote sorting too, if i can implement it
17:53 VanessaE   "loudmouth trolls" heh
17:54 celeron55  altough it'd need a certain initial popularity boost time for each mod when they are moved
17:54 VanessaE   yes
17:55 VanessaE   but how to be fair with that?
17:55 celeron55  ...the best way to do this would be to have different "views" of the same section
17:55 celeron55  one for last post, one for original post and one for popularity
17:55 celeron55  ...i bet this is not going to be easy
17:57 celeron55  is there anyone in here with more familiarity with the punbb codebase than me at roughly 10 minutes?
18:00 celeron55  oh wait, there IS a hook that can modify the query before it is used
18:04 celeron55  by looking at the code, pun_karma doesn't use it though
18:07 sapier1    hello, I've got a huge problem with animals mod I most likely won't be able to fix on my own. Is anyone here interested in animals mod enough to help me?
18:08 * PilzAdam is
18:09 sapier1    the problem is the lookup you found too ... I don't find any direct reason why this happens with animals mod enabled.
18:11 sapier1    I've replaced the warning you mentioned by timings read from luasocket. By now I can tell there ain't any abm nor onstep handler running more thatn 200ms
18:12 PilzAdam   do you know if it caused by loading the new area and placing animals there or by unloading the old area?
18:12 sapier1    but, as soon as map generation and transfer to client start happening there occurs a lockdown consuming all memory and crashing with bad_alloc after some time
18:13 sapier1    can't really tell as both happens same time
18:13 PilzAdam   you can check it with static spawnpoint: load both areas and then die in the non spawn area
18:13 sapier1    wait, loading is at least one of the cases. If world is in some state entering world will cause lockdoen
18:14 sapier1    as nothing should be unloaded on enter enter loading is a problem for sure ... this doesn't tell unloading might be one too
18:15 celeron55  run it in a debug build in gdb and get a backtrace
18:15 sapier1    that has been one of the things i did first ... didn't give any hard evidence
18:16 sapier1    what I've discovered is that emerge thread is waiting for mutex and doesn't seem to get it
18:16 sapier1    while server thread does collision handling exceptions because of not loaded blocks
18:17 sapier1    InvalidPositionException to be precise
18:17 sapier1    and the bad_alloc always happens in adding a cbox
18:17 sapier1    at least all the times i did debug
18:18 sapier1    and it doesn't seem to happen in single player but I'm not sure if this isn't only a timing issue
18:19 PilzAdam   i had the bug in sinleplayer
18:19 sapier1    ok this is a strong hint it's timing only that it ain't happening in singleplayer for me
18:22 sapier1    it's been improoving with reduced cpu load by animals mod and by removing other mods
18:22 celeron55  you're just overcomplicating things
18:22 PilzAdam   i didnt used any mod except animals when the bug appeared (and worldedit)
18:23 celeron55  based on what i have heard thus far the collision detection goes to an infinite loop due to some reason, while it should not do that in any case
18:23 sapier1    true but without other mods i sometimes need half an our to trigger the bug
18:23 celeron55  (as a probable guess)
18:24 PilzAdam   there should be engine side collision detection
18:24 sapier1    it is engine side collision detection that probably is looping
18:24 celeron55  eh
18:24 celeron55  we are exactly talking about engine-side collision detection
18:25 celeron55  sapier1: make the loops in the collision detection to print some values and also before and after the loops and see how the output looks
18:25 celeron55  if a backtrace doesn't help, then extensive logging does help
18:27 sapier1    I've already tried but probably I didn't recognize something so I'll do again. Will minetest 0.4.1 be good or only latest version?
18:28 sapier1    the bug occurs on both
18:29 PilzAdam   celeron55, <offtopic>calling object:punch() method in lua is somehow starnge. Do you know how to call it correctly? This does not work http://pastebin.com/tv75Z1D9</offtopic>
18:30 PilzAdam   (the "fixme" is not in the orginal code )
19:20 sapier1    is speed within core is  1/10 blocks per second am I right?
19:21 celeron55  most likely
19:22 sapier1    ok I've debugged a cas with an y-speed of -1353 so this is -135 blocks per second ... seams really bad to me
19:23 sapier1    probably a mob doing skydiving :-(
19:23 celeron55  PilzAdam (altough already gone; somebody ask him to look at log): i don't really know, but that exact code seems to be punching the object by itself, which... might act weirdly
19:24 sapier1    does falling player have a maximum speed?
19:24 celeron55  sapier1: that shouldn't really be possible in any regular case, objects should collide with non-loaded ground...
19:24 celeron55  unless they don't
19:25 sapier1    135 is free fall of just a little bit more than 14 seconds
19:26 sapier1    collision handling checks all blocks from old pos to new pos so at that speed it really has lots of blocks to check
19:28 sapier1    I'll try adding som sort of maximum y acceleration to animals mod to ensure this ain't just a side effect
19:29 sapier1    max y speed not acceleration of course
19:30 celeron55  that is not a fix, it's a horrible hack which most likely doesn't even work properly
19:31 celeron55  you need to debug the collision code more; if it works correctly, there simply is no way something can go at 135nodes/s speed without immediately stopping
19:31 celeron55  except if there is a bug of some kind
19:32 sapier1    ok
19:41 sapier1    ok collision code seems to be correct, speed is result of 94 nodes/s (new debug case) of a really high dtime 10.02 * acceleration of 9.81 nodes/s
19:42 sapier1    so you were right fixing in animals mod wouldn't have fixed anything
19:45 sapier1    looks to me like a vicious circle one entitie moving fast adding delay to dtime ... making next dtime even longer so adding additional dtime
20:06 sapier1    celeron55 seems long dtimes while having entities beeing accelerated are the problem ... I've tried to limit dtime for collision calculation to 0.5 and didn't have the bug for about 15 minutes
20:07 sapier1    this explains why it happens on load/unload of areas too as these operations probably increase dtime
20:08 Hey        Folks I am new, how can I contribute?
20:11 sapier1    I don't know what do you think you can provide?
20:13 Hey        I have good knowledge of AI and mathematics. I can write codes too.
20:14 Hey        I need some experience in the game industry.
20:15 sapier1    mintest ain't exactly gaming industry ;-)
20:17 Hey        I think so ;-), but it seems like a way to get experience.
20:17 sapier1    speaking of AI you're talking about ai lik in games or telephone call answering machines?
20:17 MiJyn      Hey, there is not a lot of AI and math involved in minetest
20:17 Hey        Artificial Intelligence: Searching Techniques!!
20:18 MiJyn      I'd recommend going a bit higher-scale (minetest vs another game is like enemylines vs CoD)
20:19 Hey        Thanks MiJyn, I'd be glad if you suggest me some other open source projects instead.
20:21 MiJyn      depends what you are interested in
20:22 sapier1    the question is how much time do you want to spend? in my opinion minetest ain't a fast solution to gain experience
20:22 Hey        Any kind of game with AI in it.
20:22 sapier1    it's more like a hobby
20:23 MiJyn      Hey, well there are millions
20:23 Hey        :-) Say puzzles
20:23 MiJyn      minetest _does_ have a bit (like bots or animals), but it's totally unofficial, and you can barely do anything (it's SO slow that if you provide some more complicated math stuff, it'll take hours)
20:24 MiJyn      Hey, hmm... chess? :P
20:24 MiJyn      on that note, ever saw that 1KB chess engine?
20:24 MiJyn      chess engine + chess game
20:25 Hey        No I haven't seen
20:25 Hey        I was checking the Wikipedia entry for open source games
20:25 MiJyn      http://js1k.com/2010-first/demo/750
20:25 MiJyn      ah
20:25 MiJyn      yes
20:25 Hey        As you said it's a long list
20:25 Hey        Thanks
20:26 MiJyn      if you _really_ wanted to use math (and wanted to spend time), the #1 on the list is FlightGear
20:27 Hey        Thanks, I have a master's in math and a master's in computer science
20:28 Hey        I already graduated
20:28 MiJyn      nice!
20:28 Hey        I have been thinking lately that Game Industry is a good place for me
20:29 MiJyn      or Frictional Games :P
20:29 MiJyn      If you are good in physics, the BulletPhysics project would love to have contributors
20:29 MiJyn      I think that Frictional Games has the awesomest physics engine ever!
20:29 Hey        My physics sucks!
20:29 MiJyn      ah
20:29 MiJyn      same for me :P
20:30 Hey        What is Frictional Game?
20:31 MiJyn      It's an indie game company (the one that made Amnesia and Penumbra)
20:31 MiJyn      I don't know if they are hiring
20:31 Hey        Oh man
20:32 Hey        I have applied for like 20 positions these two days
20:32 Hey        I got an interview tomorrow
20:34 Hey        The problem is that I have been involved with theory for like 5 years, so right away I'm not a fast coder.
20:34 Hey        And besides I have not been in the industry
22:31 sapier1    celeron wants you to view log of this chat adam
22:33 PilzAdam   thx