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IRC log for #minetest-delta, 2012-07-14

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Time Nick Message
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10:04 jordach BRB, going to swtich OS
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14:33 Aerodynamic Okay, I tried to get onto my Ubuntu Linux this morning and I got a GRUB command prompt, I could give more details if necessary if somebody would help me out. All my minetest and other things that have to do with building/development are on there.
14:34 brobostigon what is the grub error you are gettimg?
14:35 brobostigon Aerodynamic: what grub error are you getting?
14:36 Aerodynamic Does there need to be an error for a command prompt to appear? There were a few messages like normal but this time I guess there were a few more. They went by too fast for me to see. I'll check again in a min
14:36 Aerodynamic Usually I see about 3 messages run across the screen before boot starts
14:37 brobostigon Aerodynamic: boot from a live cd, and go into /var/log on said disk, and grubs log is there, pastebin that for us.
14:38 brobostigon infact ignore that. and just get us the errors it outputs.
14:38 Aerodynamic I dont have one, I installed into dual-boot via Hard Drive installation. Unfortunately. I know the disk is more featured and generally better to use.
14:38 brobostigon but if yu are getting thrown into a command prompt, then grub cant seem to complete its processes. have you tried to reinstall grub ?
14:39 Aerodynamic Individually by itself?
14:39 Calinou dual boot is da hell :P especially with UEFI
14:40 Aerodynamic Yeah, But unfortunately I have to do it that way because the rest of the family is unwilling to change
14:40 brobostigon Aerodynamic: reinstall grub on your first hdd mbr, so your bios can understand it properly.
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14:41 Calinou "Aerodynamic> Yeah, But unfortunately I have to do it that way because the rest of the family is unwilling to change "
14:41 Calinou people afraid to switch to noobuntu
14:41 Calinou ._.
14:41 Aerodynamic I don't deal with BIOS often at all. So would you mind helping me get to the place where I re-install?
14:42 Aerodynamic In fact the only place where I have dealt with it is when I set some on-boot settings on the last computer
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14:42 brobostigon Aerodynamic: in the mbr, of your first hdd. there are some good instructions for grub reinstall on help.ubuntu.com/community
14:44 brobostigon Aerodynamic: and you dont need to change anything in your bios, but it make it easier for it, it is better to put grub etc, somewhere where we can make it easier for it.
14:45 brobostigon Aerodynamic: and always make sure, you have some kind of external boot media, to help, if it breaks.
14:46 brobostigon Aerodynamic: there are some famous bugs, especially in newer version of windows, that when booted, breaks grub in various ways.
14:46 Aerodynamic You mean like a USB or CD?
14:46 brobostigon Aerodynamic: either.
14:46 Calinou <brobostigon> Aerodynamic: there are some famous bugs, especially in newer version of windows, that when booted, breaks grub in various ways.
14:47 Calinou Aerodynamic, did you buy that computer recently? (in 2011-2012)
14:47 Aerodynamic Thats dumb.. No way of fixing that?
14:47 Aerodynamic Its extremely recent
14:47 brobostigon also, linux itself, and ubuntu/debian, isnt totally ready for uefi either, that is, if it is.
14:49 Calinou grub is partly-ready for UEFI, that microsoft shit designed to restrict computers to windows even more
14:49 Calinou it's going to be "better" with windows 8 + secure boot
14:49 * Calinou doesn't want to risk his windows; he's running linux in a VM for now
14:49 brobostigon in debian certainly, you need to build a custom live media, with the uefi grub packages, to install from ,on a uefi machine, at the moment, in debian.
14:49 Calinou brobostigon, seen my desktop (at #minetest)? :P
14:49 Aerodynamic Yeah I have windows 7, I bet windows 8 is incredibly restrictive
14:50 brobostigon Calinou: i must have missed, sorry.
14:50 Calinou http://ompldr.org/vZXFveA/Capture%20d'%C3​%A9cran%20-%2014072012%20-%2015:35:21.png
14:50 Calinou windows 8 can go fuck itself
14:50 Calinou (debian testing + xfce)
14:50 Calinou wallpaper: misa's pack for minetest
14:50 brobostigon Calinou: :)
14:51 Calinou when win8 will be out, if I have to buy a new computer, I will not buy a computer with windows 8. just one without any OS, then I install linux
14:51 brobostigon Calinou: agreed, as standard grub2 is partly capable, but not completly. there is other stuff it needs.
14:52 Calinou finding computers without an OS isn't easy...
14:52 brobostigon Calinou: that why i build my own.
14:52 Calinou and they can be MORE expensive than computers with windows, as the sellers are trying to make money off linux users
14:52 Calinou building can be quite expensive too
14:52 Aerodynamic Hmm.. Well if I had some external boot media I would use it. But because this is a shared family computer and they aren't exactly into anything that involves "uncharted territory" on there part.
14:53 brobostigon Calinou: but i like the choice and the control i get, to make it how i want to, than deal with what other people think i want.
14:53 Aerodynamic They don't like that I have Linux on the computer in the first place.
14:53 Calinou the only reason I bought this computer with windows was because it was quite cheap
14:53 Calinou and because I didn't want to mess with the drivers, the graphics card being quite recent
14:53 brobostigon Aerodynamic: well, you will need some external ubuntu/debian boot media, to fix grub, i dont think it is possibl;e directly from windows.
14:54 Calinou Aerodynamic, brace yourselves, prepare for your family flaming you :P
14:54 Aerodynamic What does the Grub command prompt do? No good?
14:54 Aerodynamic When I choose Ubuntu thats what I get
14:55 brobostigon Aerodynamic: you can in grub prompt, point it at the root partition and the kernel.
14:55 Calinou Aerodynamic, boot an ubuntu live CD then you could try fixing grub from there
14:55 Calinou change the boot order in BIOS to boot from the CD of course
14:55 Aerodynamic Issue is I don't have a CD, Unfortunately my only option was to install directly to the hardrive
14:55 brobostigon Aerodynamic: and then if that works, you can change grub parameters in ubuntu, to fix it from there.
14:55 Calinou Aerodynamic, how did you do this? O_o
14:56 brobostigon Aerodynamic: install directly to the hd from what?
14:56 Calinou wait, if you're on IRC, you're on a computer then? download an iso, then burn it to a CD/DVD/USB
14:56 Aerodynamic Internet.
14:56 Calinou what software?
14:56 Calinou unetbootni?
14:56 Calinou unetbootin*
14:56 Aerodynamic I just got it and downloaded the installer from the Ubuntu website. And chose my install conditions there.
14:56 Calinou > wubi?
14:57 brobostigon dont tell me it is that thing, that allows you to install to an image on your windows partition to boot from.?
14:57 Calinou Aerodynamic, did it work earlier?
14:57 Calinou wubi is da hell
14:57 brobostigon wubi cant be fixed, especially pointing grub back at it, in my experience,
14:57 Aerodynamic I choose which one I run at boot, Windows 7 or Ubuntu. Its dual-boot and I got it by simply installing from the website
14:58 brobostigon Aerodynamic: i would start with, in grub prompt, telling it where to find the root partition and kernel. and see if that works.
14:58 Aerodynamic How am I to do that? What commands to run?
14:59 brobostigon Aerodynamic: there are some good instructions on the grub site.
14:59 brobostigon Aerodynamic: it is fairly complex. or go into the grub room on freenode.
15:00 brobostigon and ask there advice also.
15:01 brobostigon and pop over to #ubuntu-uk, they will also help, and are really nice people.
15:18 Aerodynamic Yeah, I used wubi, Its in my files for ubuntu
15:19 brobostigon i dont think it is really recoverable thn, i think windows must have messed with grub,
15:19 Aerodynamic What do you mean, "Messed with"? Intentionally screwed it up?
15:20 brobostigon Aerodynamic: not stricktly, but windows checks, certainly in recent versions, as to what boots it, and fixes it automatically if it sees something wrong.
15:21 Aerodynamic Is this why when I usually boot up I see a regular 3 error messages?
15:21 brobostigon good question, i havent tried windows7 with grub2, using wubi, so i couldnt say.
15:22 Aerodynamic What could have possibly broken it? Right at boot
15:22 brobostigon Aerodynamic: windows itself.
15:22 brobostigon Aerodynamic: and as i said, wubi is somewhat dodgy anyway, and is fragile.
15:23 Aerodynamic Thats what the other guy is telling me too. So for a good install I will need a Live CD or USB?
15:23 brobostigon yes, i was watching,
15:23 VanessaE morning all
15:23 brobostigon yes, i would agree, and make a seperate partition, or get yourself a seperate hdd, it is much easier.
15:24 brobostigon Aerodynamic: partition resizing is fairly safe now, but do backups as always, just incase.
15:24 Aerodynamic If I did that I would probably get a different version of Linux, I use Ubuntu because its the only good option I could find for dual-boot wubi install
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15:25 brobostigon Aerodynamic: ubuntu would work fine, equally in that situation also,
15:25 Aerodynamic Yeah, But I would prefer another one
15:26 brobostigon Aerodynamic: try debian stable.
15:26 Aerodynamic I have DECENT computer knowledge. But I seemed pretty ignorant just now because I have absolutely NO experience when it comes to booting
15:28 brobostigon Aerodynamic: ubuntu uses debian as its basis. and debian is somewhat more standard than ubuntu.
15:29 Calinou ubuntu is more popular then debian
15:29 Calinou Aerodynamic, my post-word of advice: don't multiboot on recent computers
15:29 Calinou too late, though; you could use the "fixmbr" command if you can boot windows
15:29 brobostigon Calinou: true, yes.
15:29 Aerodynamic I was aiming at something more like Arch, Learn from the net to use everything like I have everything else.
15:30 Calinou arch sucks.
15:30 Calinou don't use it; it's a lot of hassle for little to no gain
15:30 VanessaE can't you just disable UEFI in the BIOS and be done with ti?
15:30 VanessaE it
15:30 Calinou VanessaE, no?
15:30 Aerodynamic What is wrong with it?
15:30 brobostigon Aerodynamic: also, do you know enough about linux, to fix it, as arch is a rolling distro?
15:30 Calinou UEFI is a new bios system in C, not in assembly
15:30 VanessaE as I understand, that's supposed to be a requirement
15:30 Calinou it's a whole different system
15:31 Calinou if you want a rolling distro, choose debian testing (and edit your sources.list a bit), IMO
15:31 Calinou it's much easier :P and more stable than arch
15:31 VanessaE it's handled partly by the BIOS also; you're supposed to be able to disable the secure boot entirely therein, which is supposed to give you basically the usual boot method
15:31 VanessaE except on ...ARM? ... devices, where disabling is forbidden by M$
15:31 Calinou there is no secure boot in win7 :P
15:32 Calinou win8 will have secure boot. SHOULD be disableable but not on ARM :|
15:32 brobostigon Calinou: yes, testing is maybe better, as the stuff in there gets tested, i an in unstable, so alittle more risky.
15:33 Aerodynamic So the complexity offers nothing in return more than others?
15:33 Calinou yes
15:33 Calinou except if you want to show off your "ski1lZ", go ahead
15:33 Aerodynamic What benefits does it offer if any?
15:34 Aerodynamic Besides showing you have "knowledge"?
15:34 brobostigon Calinou: i just went with unstable, as at that time gnome3 wasnt in stable nor testing, so unstable was my only choice.
15:34 Calinou why did you want gnome3? :P
15:34 Calinou Aerodynamic, none. the AUR sucks
15:34 VanessaE gnome?  ick.  XFCE ftw. :-)
15:35 Aerodynamic Anything with high complexity that offers good benefit in return. (A learning experience counts.)
15:35 Calinou high five VanessaE
15:35 Calinou 4.8 rocks
15:35 Calinou :P
15:35 brobostigon Calinou: as at that point in time, i was testing gnome-shell, and other componants, and it was my only choice, with the media i had at hand.
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15:55 Calinou NakedFury is now naked :o
15:56 MiJyn thanks for the very nice and appropriate joke Calinou
15:56 Calinou he wasn't, earlier.
15:56 Calinou ol
17:41 art joined #minetest-delta
17:44 art hi what's up .. ;] i almost done making 3D torches i think i will add some "flaming effects" later but right now i need new texture can some body make one for me ?
17:46 Calinou hi art
17:47 Calinou maybe me; but I don't know _how_ your torch will be textured
17:47 art give me a second ..
17:47 Calinou no, two seconds.
17:47 Calinou :3
17:47 art is there a screan shot short key in minetest
17:47 Calinou yes: F12
17:47 art thx
17:48 Calinou screenshots are in the "bin" folder
17:49 art ahh .. bin .. yep i found ..
17:50 art http://tinypic.com/r/iws048/6
17:51 Calinou o_O
17:51 Calinou these are not torches
17:51 Calinou these are sticks
17:51 Calinou :P
17:51 art right now its used wood texture ;D
17:51 art that why it looks like sticks :D
17:52 Calinou why are you playing "minimal"?
17:52 Calinou clone this in your "games" folder:
17:52 Calinou git clone http://github.com/celeron55/minetest_game
17:52 Calinou then start a world with minetest_game
17:53 art hmy ....
17:54 art i will try... but i'm working on game core so is game needed for it ?
17:54 art i use it for test's only
17:56 art o0 .. right now i'm sure i will use it .. ther is flame mode in lua i will add it to torch ;D
17:56 Calinou minetest_game is better
17:56 Calinou as it's the "full" game
17:58 art Calinou: any way can u make for me something like this : http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Torch ^_^
17:58 Calinou unfortunately you can't create non-cuboid nodeboxes
17:58 art i run full game now .. is there some cheats to give staff ?
17:59 Calinou all nodeboxes are axis-aligned
17:59 Calinou art, /grant singleplayer all
17:59 Calinou (allows flight/fast mode)
17:59 Calinou /giveme <item name> <amount>
17:59 art thx
17:59 Calinou /giveme stone -1
17:59 Calinou infinite-ish stack of stone
17:59 art o0
17:59 art great
17:59 Calinou /giveme MesePick
17:59 Calinou mese pickaxe
17:59 Calinou /giveme glass 99
17:59 Calinou stack of glass
18:00 art all right thx ;D
18:00 Calinou http://paste.ubuntu.com/1091914/
18:00 Calinou tool names for /giveme
18:00 Calinou these are particular
18:01 Calinou also, to give sticks, it's Stick, not stick. (case-sensitive)
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18:30 art what do you guys think about that kind of torch for minetest ;D
18:30 art http://tinypic.com/r/2vtct9s/6
18:34 art nobody here or there is not opinion on that sh##y work
18:35 darkrose looks boring
18:36 art darkrose: any idea how to make it more interesting ?
18:37 art some animation ?
18:37 art or effect ?
18:39 darkrose the shape is ugly, the default 2d ones look better
18:42 art o0
18:43 Fixer_ my grub loads winxp well without problems
18:43 Fixer_ and win7 too
18:44 art u just killed me ..... i can not understand how 2d flat texture can look better then ... solid block ..
18:45 art i was thnikink about rounded shape or animate flame and light but it can stress game core a lot and we are talking about minecraft clone .. 3d cuboid world ..
18:46 art i simply can not accept your way of thinking .. so u prefer having all the staff in game flat 2d ?
18:46 art like flowers, fruits items etc etc
18:48 darkrose no, but a rectangular lump doesn't look as good as a 2d sprite with some shape to it
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19:17 Taoki meh, I keep missing c55.
19:17 Taoki If someone else knows, I wanted to ask if nodeboxes can be animated by chance
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19:50 VanessaE they can
19:50 VanessaE that 3dforniture mod has animated textures in the flame part of the 3d torch
19:50 VanessaE though I doubt the actual boxes can move around, as such
19:51 VanessaE (unless you define a whole bunch of nodes, each with the boxes in a different position, and use them like old fashioned cell animation.
19:51 VanessaE but that's CPU intensive)
20:09 Taoki nice
20:09 Taoki VanessaE: It's still for making animated players and mobs and such. You already can define a 3D mesh, but if you can also animate legs and arms that's nice
20:10 VanessaE ash that kind of animation..
20:10 VanessaE ah*
20:10 Taoki yeah. Like legs and arms swinging when you walk, even if they're one block
20:10 VanessaE um...all I can say there is good luck with that ;-)
20:11 Taoki ah, so it's not already implemented. Ok :P
20:11 Taoki Or possible with a LUA hack
20:11 VanessaE as long as the arms and legs, when moving, actually look reasonably accurate and not this stiff mechanical sorta look I've seen in minecraft videos
20:11 Taoki yeah MC does that
20:12 VanessaE even quake3/openarena looks better, and that's hardly the pinnacle of modern CGI
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23:28 cy1 what are StaticObject?
23:33 cy1 They get serialized and deserialized in every mapblock (collection of nodes that loads all at once)
23:33 cy1 Never referred to anywhere else in the code.
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